To Evan:

At some stage in your life, you'll learn that you don't have to answer EVERYTHING and always have the last word. The net result of doing so is that you simply piss people off even further.

To Herb and VSL:
You have created a remarkable library which never ceases to amaze me. Your interaction with customers is exceptional.

I remember when the first edition just came out, I expressed my disappointment at the absence of looped samples. There was an initial reluctance at this suggestion, the attitude being that players were not naturally "looped", but after some good discussion, the concensus prevailed that because we are not using live players, we are using samplers, we could drop the attention to reality and move towards a product that even "transcends" reality.

Now, in the Pro Edition, we have many looped samples and I sincerely thank VSL for that. (I could use even more......)

We are living in the 21st century where vocals are pitch-corrected, orchestras are sampled and.........notes are timestretched.

Great!! Let the progress continue!

Regards - Colin

originally posted by herb:
.....we were able to offer 100% length optimized samples.

...and this is the gist which nobody seems to be aware in the meantime. the samples are _OPTIMIZED_ to an equal length inside a certain patch, nothing else. we actually recorded 2, 4 and 6 sec pfp samples with and without vibrato. i can testify this fact, because i directed the recordings.
insinuating we are faking samples is 1. untrue and 2. devaluating the tremendous effort of our musicians.
it's a kinky situation: on one hand everybody's longing for samples which sounds real played, that means they are imperfect, like humans. on the other hand the enormous skill and work of our editors make this stuff playable on a keyboard, that means they need to effect a compromise in certain cases. if you like to find _something_, you'll find it.

perpetual nagging is such a nice sport, but very useless.

Michael Hula

@michi said:

We actually recorded 2, 4 and 6 sec pfp samples with and without vibrato. i can testify this fact, because i directed the recordings.
insinuating we are faking samples is 1. untrue and 2. devaluating the tremendous effort of our musicians.

No one is insinuating that. No one said that. Please don't put any of those words in my mouth that's for certain.

Now, thank you for letting us all know that you did actually record 2,4,6 NV, and V samples. If you had said that in the beginning I think many people wouldn't be all over me about this.

Having had everyone digest this truth, I am not sure the word "faking" is of teh best use here, but if that's the word you want to use, than you are wrong. You guys DID fake samples. But it was apparently a good decision. One made wisely.

I really don't know why everyone is getting on my case about this.

1. You guys "faked" (your words) samples.
2. I show this here.
3. The cat is out of the bag.
4. Truth demystified.
5. Only people hurt now is VSL ... the customer at least has peace of mind of not being surprised by this
6. I love VSL
7. I support VSL
8. I defend VSL adamantly (there are at least 5 sales I know of directly related to my marketing of the library to BIG people in Hollywood)
9. I use VSL everyday
10. I think Herb is great
11. The VSL team seems to be annoyed by me which is common fodder for a rebel (someone on the bleeding edge with outlandish ideas one day to become the norm!)
12. And finally dudes, THIS AIN'T MY TOPIC! lol [:D] Amazing how this became about me. Does anyone else have a life? Or is this Evan Evans is wrong and should be persecuted day? Why is everyone in denial here? All I am saying are truths. Seems most people missed the neutral stance I have on this finding. I am just a vessel with a head on my shoulders.
13. I won't hesitate next time to bring anything to anyone's attention, good or bad, or interesting or not.

And I hope MICHI that you aren't insinuating that I am perpetually nagging. If so you have misinterpreted me. If anything I am being perpetually railed upon. It really doesn't take much to say something (something true I might add), but I think it does take alot to have 15 people group together in common thought and rail on someone out of some kind of repressed denial.

But again, whatever. Must I say it again? I still love the library.

And most importantly, THIS AIN'T MY TOPIC.

Thanks all. On to the next interesting subject please. i think we got all teh answers we needed here.

[[:)]]

Evan Evans

P.S. The smiley faces are really how I feel. They are emoticons. Should I be sad to be alive? Ungrateful? I feel great. i am happy, content, and confident. And by the way, I write some pretty damn good music, get lot's of jobs, have a wonderful family, live in a beautiful place, own my own home, listen to the finest music, eat the greatest foods, and USE THE BEST DARN SAMPLED ORCHESTRA LIBRARY in the world!!! The VSL!!! Is there anything wrong with being happy under my conditions? [[:)]]

@JMMusic said:

Please just kick Evan Evans off of this user forum already.

What IS going on here?

I would have thought that by now we all know what Evan is like and would have surely gotten used to his mood swings. He's made nearly 800 posts to this forum: some of them ludicrous and some of them extremely interesting and articulate. He knows if he goes too far, he's going to get a kicking.

Surely, the sort of people that buy an extremely complicated product like VSL, for example, are mostly fairly intelligent I would have thought. They can surely work out for themselves what's important and what's not when it comes to samples. Who cares? Really? If it works, it works. Samples aren't real anyway.

This thread isn't going to change anyones mind about buying VSL or any other library. I would say from a 'company' point of view though Evan, Cool It in the nicest possible way.

Regarding the original quote about removing people from forums; that way leads to madness and then pretty soon you have anarchy. Anyone makes another suggestion like that, as far as I'm concerned will become my new official hobby, until I get kicked off.

Best regards

paul, i'd like to second that.
also i for myself do agree to differ on a series of evan's statements but i would not make removing a user from the VSL forum a topic unless there are severe legal issues forcing us to do so.
ourdays the right of free speech is not obvious any more and will not support intentions to introduce restrictions here, especially regarding censorship or banning.
although this doesn't mean some post could be more well-balanced imho
christian

[quote=cm]paul, i'd like to second that.

Thank you very much Christian.

I don't like talking about members in the third person but Evan is probably as mad as a hatter sometimes, but I wouldn't want to be without him here. [:D]

He can be quite humerous sometimes.

[I] Besides, its easier to control a thing when you can see it.

Best regards

Paul

Ok - for a last time:

@Another User said:

[...] And I hope MICHI that you aren't insinuating that I am perpetually nagging. If so you have misinterpreted me.

See above. One step forward, two steps back. Insinuations are _your_ part - and I'm afraid that you are high-handed enough to not even know it.

****

It's your luck that I won't have enough time answer all the coming cascades of your self-referring threads over and over again. Be aware though that the line between "much" and "too much" is thin.

Back to work now -

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

Right.....

1. I just wasted 10 minutes of my life reading this RIDICULOUS threaad, when i could have been making music.
2. Who cares.
3. Who cares....
4. etc


The main thing is this - I am in a results orientated business as we all are.
Do we care how we get the sound that we need, or is the process that allows us to achieve it more important?
For my money, i have ABSOLUTELY no qualms in letting you manipulate samples if you did, or don't if you dont need to. Herb, all we care about is "Can i make something sound as real as possible with this library?"
The answer is clearly more or a yes with this library than any other.

Secondly, (and i say this as someone that has gotten to know Evan outside of this forum, and like him) - I am afraid that i agree with Herb and Dietz... His comments were out of line and not put well, but you need to understand, that sometimes certain people like to seem controversial - It's who they are.
Would you choose not to read a newspaper because you didn't agree with all the articles?(Although I agree that comments may need to be toned down a bit, as i really don't want to waste ANOTHER ten minutes of my life reading such a pointless thread....)

Lastly, as someone who uses samples every day of my life, my one bugbear at the moment is the lack of ability to timestretch accurately - crescendo lengths, but also just generally sounds that need it. Any cross company work with the guys at melodyne would be greatly appreciated.
But Herb, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make sure that if and when they make a product that can be used in logic, it really does what it claims to do, as I bought melodyne for use with the bridge, thru logic, and it is too flawed and bugged to use effectively - and not really well implemented for logic use. As a standalone product, it is amazing.


Thats my 10 cents worth - now, can we get back to talking about music ?
[:D]


David T

With pleasure! :-]

/Dietz

@Dietz said:

Ok

It's your luck that I won't have enough time answer all the coming cascades of your self-referring threads over and over again. Be aware though that the line between "much" and "too much" is thin.

Back to work now -

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

I did write some "critical" statements about evans writing in this forum quite some time ago. In the meantime I think that evan is actually consciously or unconsciously, I do not know, looking for reactions of the kind he is provoking right now. In his last post he does write about him writing some great music..... Be sensible, if someone really is sure of himself he will not write this, because there is no need for it. So evan is playing a game with us, for whatever reason I also do not know, and if we do react, we go in to his game. and this is not worth the time and the energy. I mean this war about time stretched samples is such a big nonsense, but I can understand that committed people do react the way you at VSL do. Just consider from where it comes from..... which is IMHO not exactly what he does consider himself-at least in his statements at this forum.

Iwan

@Carlos D said:

Herb & co. : You used a synthetic method to achieve a certain result. This is not in your marketing anywhere.

Carlos. You said it. That's all I am really getting at. And that it surprised me for those reasons you quote here above.
...


Umm... I was trying to be a bit funny with that quote. Since *all* of this is a synthetic effort. My point was that we paid the VSL folks to balance the synthetic and the real in an optimal way to give us the "instruments" and realism we require.

When your Hollywood composer friend finds a better way of doing this, let him present it to us, or to the world.

---

As far as the tone of this discussion: I don't think anyone should be banned or censored, and I applaud the VSL folks for keeping this forum as open as possible. Aside from things illegal, obscene, profane, libelous, or otherwise hazardous to the members and company, this forum should be open.

That being said, we will arrive at a place which almost all internet forums come to: a conflict of personality and, for lack of a better term, a conflict of micro-culture.

When people meet face to face, they quickly determine if they speak the same language(s) and follow the same formalities and protocols. Common interests come second. Here, and elsewhere in the internet, we are brought together by common interest first, and *then* we find out when our protocols conflict. And oh boy, do we ever find out.

Evan's communications here are known to those who visit often. He has said that he likes to speak his mind and thoughts; to put it all out there. I tend to reflect and process, consider other perspectives, hold back where I am not sure, but stand tough on core principles. I'd like to think that I generate more light than heat, and I care more about a common end result or understanding than about having myself heard.

We can disagree about technical stuff. We can disagree about musical stuff. But it is always somewhat harder to get past our "protocol" differences. It is easy to take offense. And the desire is strong for the offender to realize why or how he/she is offending. In an open forum, sometimes, you just have to let it go.

Evan, I wish that you would realize that some of your posts communicate a tone that offends. You well know that this is not the first time. Personally, I am kind of used to it from you. I can take you with a grain of salt. Others may not find it so easy. I don't blame them.

I can only hope that you'd make some adjustments for the greater good here.

Other members and moderators: we may just have to let this go. It's the price of an open forum. Let's enjoy the process and, most of all, the music.

Carlos

Yes, I second Paul's suggestion above. Would it be possible to have an area to up and download mp3's here? I think it would be immensely helpful and stimulating. I've heard some of the work of composer's on this forum and it's exceptional. If I may say, many of the demos sound just like that - demos. Which is fine but doesn't show the full ranges of the VSL Library imho.

I know it's off topic but it's also on topic in that it's about music. [[;)]]

Dave Connor

@Another User said:

We may just have to let this go.

yes, please. Let it go people.

This is my last post in this topic ... THIS TOPIC (evil laugh) [6]

LOL

[:)]

Evan Evans

ähmmm .... Are we musicians?

I ask this question, because sometimes I get the feeling that people would more likely play computer action games as making music. Playing "Battle Games"?
So, Am I writing to EA Games' website or to the VSL Forum?

Is it really impossible to live in peace together?
I think we all should be able to express our opinions and feelings with our own words.
Evan did that and I'm sure that he didn't want to harm the "image" of the VSL.
Hey guys, his VSL related topics and works made my decision of buying VSL a lot easier. His comments and his support helped many of us.
And what's about the "Open Files Limitation"?
EXS Users, like myself would get crazy without his very useful topics and researches.

Maybe I'm a silly pupil but is this the niveau we are talking to each other?
I always thought that musicians are peaceful and even if they are sometimes a little jealous on someone else, they would never make an attack against their own.
Maybe it's a little easier for me to have an objectively overview, because I'm not as involved as an professional musician in the "composing" scene.

I love the Vienna Symphonic Library (and it's members) and so I also love the support of Evan, because he IS an important part of the VSL-(Crew) - World - at least for me.

Just my thoughts. And again: Sorry for my occasionally language mistakes.

All the best,
Hans-Peter

Hey Evan,
the smartest of all smarts leave the judgement of their smartness to the other smarts. Makes him much smarter.
- M

Hey... did you hear the one about the composer who wrote music.........

Thought not!!!!!!

David T

Interesting facts:
1. Most serial killers have IQ's abvove 150.
2. www.evanevansisatool.com is still an available domain
3. From www.evanevans.com
After writing for radio, television, CD-Rom and CD-i, Evan found it was time to move to Hollywood to pursue film composing at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA), with aspirations of scoring his first feature film whilst entrenched in Tinseltown. Studying, writing, and conducting many times a week with veteran composer Don Ray (Twilight Zone), top-notch orchestrator Steven Scott Smalley (Batman, Starship Troopers), and music editor Joseph E. Rand (Gorky Park, Titanic), at age 19, Evan emerged a 'seasoned' composer eager for that first feature film. His break came when he scored the intense, claustrophobic thriller, Killers (Icon Entertainment). Evan pursued further studies at the Nadia Boulanger Institute in Paris - sharing the same pedagogy as Leonard Bernstein, Aaron Copland, and Elliot Goldenthal, among others - and in Los Angeles with Steven Scott Smalley, Clare Fischer, and musical giant Lalo Schifrin...
"I owe so much to Lalo. He taught me a great deal about the mechanics of the film industry, orchestration, recording sessions, and the philosophy and emotional architecture of film".
Evan's credits on star-powered films include the quirky, dark comedy, Table For One, starring Rebecca De Mornay and Michael Rooker; Tripfall, with Eric Roberts, John Ritter, and Rachel Hunter; and, Newsbreak, with Judge Reinhold, Michael Rooker, and Robert Culp. He has made rounds on some of the worlds most respected art house cinema, including Miss Wonton (Sundance Film Festival), and the lyrical and controversial Coyote (Flanders Film Festival). When it comes time to conjure up tension and complexity, Evan has made his mark as the leading film composer of choice having worked on such psychological thrillers, shockers, and fantasy films as Hunting Humans, From The Grave, Future Murder, and Killers.
"One of the most fascinating and exciting moments is when I meet the filmmaker. It's at that point that I'm made aware of the context of the vision that the filmmaker has attempted. This context then becomes the driving force in actually cinematically realizing the director's vision through my musical interpretations. I don't think many filmmakers understand how vitally important the score is to the true vision of the film, but you can bet they do after they've worked with me, with my logical methods of communication, and my talents of creation."

Okay, so why hasn't Mr. Wonderful, who apparently lives life off of the wonderful luxuries of his royalties from his slew of B movies, escaped the independent film festival circuits???? Why is he still writing slash and hack scores when he appears to have so many BIG Hollywood friends and such talent and material. With his apparent brains, connections, skills, and contacts...after 8 years in Hollywood...he still isn't listed on the All-Movie guide for anything. What is the deal....I've never seen his name on anything but his posts proclaiming his success. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, Evan, I'm just living your motto for a minute and saying exactly what I think....where's the beef? What makes you so great when you've done nothing of importance. If you want everyone to be real and say what they feel, then here it come...show me the money!!! I don't want to hear you telling people how skilled and smart you are until I hear you do something worth applauding. I can believe your living off dad's royalties, because he's a true legend...but income from your work on limited release/straight to VHS horror films won't even fill your your gas tank in Carmel, CA... your whole persona is horrible fraud. You've had what 50 posts total to your fan club in 4 years...half of them are from you, and half of what's left are people telling you your dad was great. How can you have fans? You don't have any music that's been released by anyone other than yourself??? Where are they listeing to your music at? People writing porn music have been heard more than you! Okay, I've been more rude to you now than I've ever been to anyone in my life, but for 6 years, I've silently watched you demean people on the web...and in 6 years I have seen you do nothing of any importance. Show us something worth respecting you for> newbie-out [:D]

People writing porn music have been heard more than you! Okay, I've been more rude to you now than I've ever been to anyone in my life, but for 6 years, I've silently watched you demean people on the web...and in 6 years I have seen you do nothing of any importance. Show us something worth respecting you for> newbie-out [:D]

hey guys - that's not necessary and - hmm- somehow over-reacted. there's a lot of thruth and there's a lot of, lets say, worth to discuss. i could understand your feelings, but i cannot agree to them. please keep cool and smart.
ok, evan ... err, even i didn't follow my own targets sometimes, but please keep this a place of intellectual discussion and a room for thoughts of each flavour available to the world of creative minds.
honestly, christian