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  • Big orchestral demo with piano and organ

    Another great demo by Guy Bacos, this time a dramatic "Superhero" orchestral score.
    BatGuy
    http://www.vsl.co.at/Player2.aspx?Lang=12&DemoId=4975

    The orchestra is expanded with the Konzerthaus Organ and the Bosendorfer Imperial.

    thanks a lot Guy
    Herb

  • Bravo Guy for that action music ..again you show your composition and orchestration
    skil but something new here you are mixing your stuff and it sound realy good..
    nice job with the reverb ! the wet and dry balance sound musical !
    and for my taste the piano sound much better in a orchestration and i think it was
    built for that task it have a very sharp sound that cut trough the orchestra but
    for solo piano piece it lack sustain (decay seem to fast ) and body..
    sorry i do not ear any sustenuto pedal like i have on The Grand 2 by Steinberg.
    anyway i will get the piano just to complete my Vienna sound bank and have a piano
    sitting in my virtual orchestra.

    Mephisto [6]

    PS: the Organ sound great

  • Guy,
    What a fantastic Demo. The balance between all the instuments is just amazing and you are able to ahieve such a sheen with your reverb....its really remarkable. If you don't mind my asking, what are you using for reverb??

    Outstanding work....and an excellent composition as well.

    Best,
    -wolfgang

  • [[:|]] Mister Bacos you're THE Guy.

  • Great Guy. Well, the Bosendorfer aquitted itself quite nicely in that track, and the organ as well.

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    @wolfgang said:

    Guy,
    What a fantastic Demo. The balance between all the instuments is just amazing and you are able to ahieve such a sheen with your reverb....its really remarkable. If you don't mind my asking, what are you using for reverb??

    Outstanding work....and an excellent composition as well.

    Best,
    -wolfgang


    I worked harder than usual on the balance between instruments, as for the reverb used it was Altiverb (Sidney Opera House), but although I thought the acoustic worked well for a massive orchestration piece like that I think most of the qualities that worked well at the end came from little details in general.

    PS Can anybody guess what's the last brass instrument we hear in the dying seconds of the piece with the repeated notes?

  • Fun, exciting piece chock full of orchestral pyrotechnics!

    One small mix observation. The piano sounds like it's in a smaller more intimate space than the rest of the orchestra. But of course, this may be your intention.

    Best,
    Jay

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    @JBacal said:

    Fun, exciting piece chock full of orchestral pyrotechnics!

    One small mix observation. The piano sounds like it's in a smaller more intimate space than the rest of the orchestra. But of course, this may be your intention.

    Best,
    Jay


    Either I over did it with putting little rev on the piano or you're paying too much attention to it, or a combination of both, because the idea was to have the piano cut through the orchestra, with the normal rev it wouldn't have as much punch and stand out like that.

  • I have a bad habit of focusing on unimportant details. I'm afraid my brain was not properly wired at birth [:)] .

    Best,
    Jay

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    @JBacal said:

    I have a bad habit of focusing on unimportant details. I'm afriad my brain was not properly wired at birth [:)] .

    Best,

    hahaha!

    Well that makes 2 of us...

    Actually it could be an important concern if others agree with your comment.

  • Um . . . is it the cimbasso? The piano sounds fine, maybe it could use a gnat's more reverb but to my ears it works well as it stands!

  • Nope, not the cimbasso.

  • I have been gently co-ercing Guy to do his own mixes for some time now and the main reason he has not done so was because he didn't have altiverb (and I did) and also didn't have the time to tackle the mixing and do all the demos so of course I was happy to help out. But as I've said to him for more than a year now, a digital artist such as he is in my opinion really needs to craft every aspect of the composition from the composing to the mix - in the arena of VSL, and in the specific case of Mr. Bacos, [H] the mix is part of the composition (in my opinion). It took me to have a holiday away for a week for him to be forced ostensibly to do this mix for himself and as I've also said for the last two years I firmly believe that the best person to do his mixes is HIM! I was often impressed by his demo mixes he sent to me where he used Space Designer before I re-mixed them for him using Altiverb and my other tools I have, so I'm really happy to be proven right in this instance where the mix is simply excellent, and most importantly distinctly and uniquely screaming of his own specific style which is exactly what his music needs. Also, for and artist like Guy who crafts the whole production from the ground up considering the mix while also considering orchestration, performance and programming all in one go - it's the best way to work there is no escaping this fact, but embracing this principle will lead to the best results that are worth the extra time involved. I always did my best on every mix that I could but I felt that the mixes would be better with his own personal touch which of course I can no more emulate than he can emulate my own styles or anyone elses, the real good stuff as it were can't be copied. Like Bruce Swedien the famous engineer/mixer/producer said in a forum post I read recently one of the most important things for any artist including a mix artist is for him to develop his own particular sonic signature, and in Guy's case he's had this well and truly developed and evolving beyond that also, for some time. For me, using tools like VSL where you craft something from the ground up and in fact start the mix process from the right note, the mix is a completely integral part of the composition and cannot be separated from it. I apply this only to some particular artists who work in a particular way, sort of George Lucas types who sculpt the pieces from the start as it were, not knowing the final outcome but knowing the right choices at the right moments instinctively, perhaps Guy is in this catagory or one of this own? Anyway, for another to mix is for another to interfere in the composition process *for composers such as Guy* which means of course that this doesn't necessarily apply to everyone by any means although I don't think he is the only one to work this way, I know I do so as well (although I don't catagorise my compositions along with Guy's!). So, I'm really happy to be proven correct here after all this time that Guy (armed with Altiverb at last) is doing fantastic mixes that I do say suit his compositions perfectly and the music is better for it. Well done Guy. I'm glad to say I told you so... [H] ha ha

    Miklos.

  • If I don't reply here and now it will never be done, so might as well now, even thought a bit corny...

    On jan 16th, 2005, when I first entered this forum I had a bit of a rough time, I often got too carried away in my opinions and it ended up not looking good for me. Miklos Powers was the one guy who emailed me PM and said that I should keep following my instincts which he seemed to believe in, he supported me technically in the months following that to get my gear together and guided me on a regular bases until I was able to start sequencing and even following that. The surprising thing is that he hadn't heard a single note of my compositions but just believed in me, I did as well believe in me, be he made it sweeter...Not many classically trained musicians are found in these forums and using computers, it is a world too remote for them, more purists... and still a bit skeptic about sampled music, but it was nice for a guy like me to have this kind of reliable help, as I told him I could not have done it without him.

    So that's a bit of a tribute to you Miklos, Thanks man! [:D]

  • The funny thing is and some may be interested in this: we've never actually met! he he, we live almost on exactly opposite sides of the planet and never even had a video conversation, but we did get a LOT of work done!

    Miklos.

  • ...believe it or not, we never even spoke on the phone to each other!

    We'd be on ichat mixing the demos to sometimes 7:00 am, well that was MY time, he was still in the afternoon! [8o|] We often had to remind ourselves that it was getting late so much we'd be joking around....

  • You're most welcome Guy it is an honour. I just see your career going from strength to strength from this point forward there's no doubt about that. Can't wait to see your name in film credits again soon! I mean, your work on Eternal was good but the stuff you're able to do now isn't really a fair comparison - it's about time you got a solid singularly composed film title under your belt in my opinion you're certainly up for just about any challenge I could think of.

    Miklos.

  • Nice story - collaboration triumphing over competition! Back to the mystery instrument: is it the bass trumpet?

  • There's been a lot of comments about the mix, Guy, from far more skilled operators than I, and Miklos's point about developing the whole 'picture' resonates with me too, as i struggle to further develop some sort of mix and engineering skills to get the whole aural image as i perceive it.

    So I'll merely say, from an orchestrative and musical sense, that this is another example of fine work from you. The orchestrative choices you make are excellent, and i enjoy what is an interesting perspective from a lot of work you've posted here. The theme and variation is thoroughly interesting, and you cleverly and surely avoid the common trap of monotonous repetition to 'fill frames.' The sudden piano phrase, for just one example, is damn near perfect, neither too long or short, and you've finished with it, stepping back into the main theme, at just the right moment. There's a well worn old saying in theatre work particularly.
    'Timing is everything.'
    You've got this bit well and truly covered, and most importantly, i can 'visualise' what's happening from the pace, and orchestrative statements you make. Your creative thematic development is outstanding in my humble opinion, and does you credit. Great imagination, Guy.

    It's only my observation, but from a musical perspective, this is probably one of the finest demos you've done, and although, as you know, i'm an admirer of your work in general, objectively, Miklos is right.

    It's more than time for you to get on with a big film project, and put what are wonderful and mature skills to good use. (I'm still listening to the fine clarinet work you did in a previous piece. Outstanding stuff.)

    Another esteemed colleague, Dave Connor, made the point about how well the tone of the piano fits in the mix. I thoroughly agree with his observation. It's just right.



    My continued admiration and respect,

    Alex.

  • Hermitage59,

    Wow! Thanks hermitage59, I'm really touched by that [:O]ops: maybe I'll frame it...

    About that clarinet piece "Springtime Caper" I have printed the score for it, for clar and piano reduction. If ever you're interested it's available in pdf through my website, although there's a malfunction on that particular page for ordering, but should be fixed sometime today.


    Conquer,

    You have conquered the mystery, It IS the bass trumpet!

    But before making a trivial of this I was going to make a point about how that bass trumpet was just the perfect sound I needed to keep fading away what the reg trumpet was previously playing. So I was glad the bass trumpet was available, thanks herb for that.