Dietz, Mathis,
Thanks for the info. And you were right Dietz, i was using Safari, and the site didn't like that. I'm now on Firefox, and get to see all the side menus and other things. (Plus it's a faster programme, and not bloatware.)

Interesting program, Sequoia.
After another more extensive look at the site, one could almost compare the Samplitude/Sequoia pairing, to that of cubase/nuendo. And as you noted, Mathis, the classical recording features are precisely why i'm interested.
I guess i'd better ask my perennial question about the score editor. Is it available in both programs, and how well does it function? (Keeping in mind of course that no DAW score component is perfect, or even close.)
Dietz, I understand what you're saying about the technical approach. I've been hammering away in Logic trying to shape and mould the audio from a more technical perspective. (Record short exs region, bounce, import into audio, trim and edit, etc....) So having a dedicated tool to do this with isn't a problem.

Related to this, how well does the VI work with either of these programs? (I'm assuming you erstwhile chaps at VSL have tested this.)

Regards,

Alex.

Alex, as I said, *everything* there is in Samplitude is also in Sequioa. Sequoia only has a bit more.
I have the score editor yet to use, so I can't comment.

After reading what you wrote about your work with Logic I have the impression you will like Sequioa.

@mathis said:

Alex, as I said, *everything* there is in Samplitude is also in Sequioa. Sequoia only has a bit more.
I have the score editor yet to use, so I can't comment.

After reading what you wrote about your work with Logic I have the impression you will like Sequioa.

Mathis,
you are a gentleman and a scholar. Thanks for the input.

Regards,

Alex.

Alex - without knowing you personally (which is a pity, actually [:)] ...), I'd say you're better off with Cubase 4. AFAIK Sequoia doesn't offer any serious scoring tools, and the implementation of virtual instruments is not as streamlined as in Steinberg's new products.

As a matter of fact, Cubase 4 is based on Nuendo 3, so most (if not all) of the goodies form my favorite DAW will be available in its former "little brother", for a fraction of the money.

Plus: Cubase / Nuendo has always been cross-platform, so you have the freedom to use the OS of your choice.

... and as far as the "technical" side of Nuendo is concerned: I think it is a good reference for the program that almost the whole (very challenging) production of the upcoming Vienna Konzerthaus Organ was done with this software.

All this is my private opinion, it does not necessarily reflect the "official" point of view of the Vienna Symphonic Library as a company.

@Dietz said:

Alex - without knowing you personally (which is a pity, actually [:)] ...), I'd say you're better off with Cubase 4. AFAIK Sequoia doesn't offer any serious scoring tools, and the implementation of virtual instruments is not as streamlined as in Steinberg's new products.

As a matter of fact, Cubase 4 is based on Nuendo 3, so most (if not all) of the goodies form my favorite DAW will be available in its former "little brother", for a fraction of the money.

Plus: Cubase / Nuendo has always been cross-platform, so you have the freedom to use the OS of your choice.

... and as far as the "technical" side of Nuendo is concerned: I think it is a good reference for the program that almost the whole (very challenging) production of the upcoming Vienna Konzerthaus Organ was done with this software.

All this is my private opinion, it does not necessarily reflect the "official" point of view of the Vienna Symphonic Library as a company.

Dietz, for what it's worth i share your view. It's a pity more of us don't meet each other. If i get to Vienna rest assured i'll drop in and say hello.

Cubase, hmm. I confess to a couple of things here. I used various incarnations of cubase over a number of years with all the baggage of frustration, lack of communication from the company and various other issues along the way. So in a way, i guess i'm a little biased against Steinberg. Having said that, my most stable setup was Cubase 3.5, and it did earn a Euro or two for me, so although i'm sceptical, i won't bite off my nose to spite my face, so to speak.
But in the research i'm doing, i've discovered some pretty sharp features and a potential for a easier workflow in other programs too. Now you will guess, because you're most certainly no fool, that i'm getting set for building a new setup, and provided the Russian Government decide they like me, and allow me to reside and work here more permanently, then i'm almost ready to push the button. So the choices are obviously important. There's quite a few here that use samplitude, sonar, etc. and not so many using logic or cubase/nuendo, at least in the modest circle of people i know. (and quite a few that used Acid too)

And it's also worth saying that i've almost given up on getting a DAW with a strong, reliable, and easy to use score component, so i've adjusted my working method to exclude this requirement from my list of needed features. And that means i write first on parchment (i know, i'm terrible old fashioned), input in midi, then bounce and work with the audio files. So a program of choice doesn't neccessarily need to have a score component at all. That leaves the rest of the package.
I'm doing more work that requires me to write to finished product, including to picture, so those components are now more important. (My regular supplier of work, a decent fellow called Kirill, was astonished i put music together in an aging laptop, with all the bouncing, etc, to deal with. He finds it amusing.)


Thanks for all your help. The information is valuable for me, and i respect your opinion, particularly in the post process, an area i'm driving myself to learn more about, in what is now a neccessary, and rather steep learning curve.

Interesting that you've enthusiastically taking the opportunity to mention your viennese organ again! [[:|]]

Regards,

Alex.

[:)]

@hermitage59 said:

[...]

Interesting that you've enthusiastically taking the opportunity to mention your viennese organ again! [[:|]]

Regards,

Alex.

[:)]

Ha! We will of course take _every_ opportunity to talk about our prrreeeccciiioooouuusss pet project! [6]

Well, Dietz is a die hard Nuendo user and I am just used to "Sequiatude". In the end it all comes down to personal preferences and likings. And experience.

I'm not sure if Dietz is talking of an older version of Sequoia when he talks about

@Another User said:

AFAIK Sequoia doesn't offer any serious scoring tools, and the implementation of virtual instruments is not as streamlined as in Steinberg's new products.

Sequoiatude made a vast progress over the last two versions in terms of Midi. Sure, I guess it still can learn something from Cubase etc., but I don't see any "serious scoring tool" missing. What specifically do you mean, Dietz?
And, yes, the VSTi implementation was quite bumpy for quite some time. But V9 works like a charm here. Too bad they don't have a V9 demo out, yet.

@hermitage59 said:

Related to this, how well does the VI work with either of these programs? (I'm assuming you erstwhile chaps at VSL have tested this.)

I'm surprised that Dietz can't answer specifically if they tested their VI's in Sequioatude.

@mathis said:

[...] I don't see any "serious scoring tool" missing. What specifically do you mean, Dietz? [...]

Maybe I missed something important, but I have to admit that I never saw a print-out-ready scoring window inside Sequoia ("Noten", we would say in German).

To address your second question: Although Sequoia is used extensively for audio-work within the Company, I don't think that many people here use it for MIDI. I'll ask around, if you want, or even better - you could pose this question in our main forum to achieve higher visibilty of the thread.

@mathis said:

[...] I don't see any "serious scoring tool" missing. What specifically do you mean, Dietz? [...]

Maybe I missed something important, but I have to admit that I never saw a print-out-ready scoring window inside Sequoia ("Noten", we would say in German).


Ah, I see, you meant the actual notes. I thought you meant film scoring... [:P]

But hey, which sequencer has a serious scoring tool? Once you got used to something like Sibelius every sequencer's score looks like shit.

@mathis said:

...

But hey, which sequencer has a serious scoring tool? Once you got used to something like Sibelius every sequencer's score looks like shit.

Ne'er a truer word written! If only Sibelius could behave as a professional sequencer as well as a brilliant score-writer.

@Cutler said:

Ne'er a truer word written! If only Sibelius could behave as a professional sequencer as well as a brilliant score-writer.

Yes, that would be truely fantastic.

Mathis,
could i trouble you a little further and ask what sort of rig you're running Samplitude on? From what i can see in their forum, the requirements are fairly modest, compared to other programs. I also noted with interest that there are some challenges with particular control surfaces. Do you use one, and if so, what's your experience been?

Dietz, is it possible you have found out if any of your colleagues are using the Midi side of Sequoia, and impressions of what it's like to work with? I'm willing to give up my precious EXS instruments if the workflow is efficient enough. (Oh for a windows version of the EXS24, like it used to be.)

Regards,

Alex.

@Cutler said:

Ne'er a truer word written! If only Sibelius could behave as a professional sequencer as well as a brilliant score-writer.

Yes, that would be truely fantastic.

See Overture 4 at www.geniesoft.com. This is their objective.

@hermitage59 said:

Mathis,
could i trouble you a little further and ask what sort of rig you're running Samplitude on? From what i can see in their forum, the requirements are fairly modest, compared to other programs. I also noted with interest that there are some challenges with particular control surfaces. Do you use one, and if so, what's your experience been?

Through this post by Peter I saw this question, sorry, slipped through back then. My setup is a P4, 2.8GHz, 2GB RAM. My real bottleneck is the PCI bus. On my system all the harddiscs still are connected to the PCI bus and not directly at the Southbridge (or North-, not sure right now), freeing up the PCI bus like on newer systems.
I don't use a hardware controller.

Peter, I actually have Overture since my GPO buy but it didn't really do it for me. On Sibelius I was hooked in half an hour.