Hi Guys,

If I may, I'd like to jump away from the power issues for a minute…

I'm just starting on this Mini-Farm journey, and have one Intel Mini 1.83 Core Duo hooked up on the network. It's got VI player installed, and I'm using Bidule to host. Currently without an audio or MIDI solution for getting it talking to Logic on my G5, but that's coming soon (with suggestions from you guys, hopefully). At the minute, I haven't installed any instruments to the mini, and am accessing them over the network (they're on an external drive, connected to the G5). This leads me to my main question:

Does anyone use a Network Hard Disk for VSL?
I'm wondering if it's a good idea to hook up a 2TB LaCie to my Gigabit switch, and access it from all the (eventual) machines.

What would be the main issues here?

Or am I still better off swapping out the internal 5400RPM Mini drive with a 7200?
I want to stay clear of FireWire, as I may be using the ProFire ADAT.

I feel like such a newbie again. it sucks.

Peter

Hi Peter:

my advice is for you to switch the internal drive to a 7200RPM. It's really not hard (and at the same time you could upgrade your mini to 2GB... [:)]).

I don't think using a network hard drive storage is a good idea within this setup. Definitely not as fast as having the samples on your main drive.

Plus, the less traffic on the network the better, especially if you are using MIDIOverLan.

jerome

Jerome, what is this based on? My understanding from Jesse White, who sets up these kinds of rigs for lots of composers (on PCs, not Macs) and wrote an article about it in our magazine, is that gigabit ethernet is easily capable of streaming samples all over kingdom come...while simultaneously running FX-Teleport and MIDI. He uses a server machine with RAID, but that's obviously not for bandwidth.

Have you tried gigabit ethernet and found it not to work? Otherwise, frankly, I'd be more inclined to go with Jesse's advice, since he's done it many times.

And without wanting to sound aggressively argumentative, I also have to ask why it's necessary to install a faster internal drive instead of just using a FW drive for samples. That's what I'd do, even if I were streaming eight outputs through a FW interface.

Again, I apologize if I sound like a weenie - that's not my intention; I just want to hear your reasoning.

I know that Jerome has set a few composers up as well. A local drive would always be more reliable than a network drive, right? In a setup with e.g. 10 Mac Minis, you'll probably have one doing Violins, another doing Oboe, etc. Since they're seperated that way anyway, why not use local drives. One less PC/server, one less thing to worry about.

I still think a Mac Mini is a silly choice for VI slaves. I guess if you're scared to death of Windows it's the best way to go. But 98% of the population uses Windows, so there must be a way to make it work... [8-)] Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Mac fan, but the PC slave you can build for ~$700 blows the Mac Mini out of the water.

Well, the reason for using a server is that all your machines can access it and you only have to install everything once; plus if one machine goes down, you just reach for the next one (and hopefullly you back up your server [:)] ). I don't have one set up, but the idea does make a lot of sense. By the way, my network has never failed, in fact I've never heard of that happening, so I'm not worried about going over it instead of directly to the SATA bus.

As to Windows machines, I have two of them (plus a third that's not working) and it's not like I'm afraid of them - in fact I like them - but they can be a nightmare when something goes wrong. I mean, if you start up from a system CD, Windows wants to replace your whole system drive, programs and all! So for me the idea of my Windows machines being Macs when I need to troubleshoot them is very appealing.

On the other hand I've posted several times that I don't think Mac Minis are a good choice for sample-streaming machines unless you have an extra FireWire interface sitting around. They have no slots and only hold 2GB of RAM, and the built-in digital interface's two outs isn't enough. Plus you can only clock them through TOSlink, which is not an audiophile way of doing things (lightpipes are jittery). So I agree - although I think Mac Pros would make excellent Windows machines; if you need that kind of power, you can't put together the same thing for the price if you buy the equivalent components on the internet. I checked a few months ago.

Just out of interest, what $700 machine would you put together? Motherboard, processor, etc.

may i join your discussion ... IMO there are more *if's* than clear directives ...
mac-mini vs. cheap PC with 2 GB RAM: id say the mac mini can load 50% more samples, the PC is more flexible regarding soundcard and drives ...
network vs. local drive: much depends on the quality of the gibabit switch and how good the server (resp. the storage of the server) allows concurrent file requests - to simply access another host holding data via network would be not the best idea.
firewire-drives: it has turned up drives and audiodevices commonly on firewire are sometimes troublesome, often firewire drives have no sufficient cooling and are dying early when used for sample streaming.

if all involved components are reliable and selected carefully each of the setups above would work of course.
christian

Thanks cm.

How would you set up the server so it does handle concurrent requests? Jesse recommends one of the Windows Server versions (I forget which one - will have to refer to his article in VI [:)] ) - i.e. it's not just another computer sharing its hard drives.

nick, the server is not the point (if windows then 2003 standard would be just fine) - the storage would be more important. this could be a software raid of sATA-disks up to external fibre-devices ... if it's some kind of hardware-raid make sure it supports grab-through (does not cache the whole file from which only a few bytes are requested ) and NCQ (re-ordering of block-requests) ... to select components and configure this is a job for experts who are then also responsible for the performance and goes far beyond the scope of this forum.
christian

Hey Jerome, I just put in the "Friendchip DMX 16" with 2 MOP4s and 2 MQAs....I am a bit confused on how I'm configuring it and what not. Here's my set-up: G5 Dual 2 Gig 6 MAc Minis Motu 2408 with Digital Performer Not sure what to clock to....PCI ADAT? Internal? SPDIF? I know you guys are using it successfully, so I thought I'd go straight to the source. Thanks in advance for your help

@Nick Batzdorf said:

I also have to ask why it's necessary to install a faster internal drive instead of just using a FW drive for samples. That's what I'd do, even if I were streaming eight outputs through a FW interface.

Nick, I wasn't able to make this work on my mini. The combination of audio and disk streaming using FW (Profire Lightbridge) was an unhappy marriage. Hence I started streaming off my internal 5400 drive and haven't had any problems. Since I'm only hosting brass it's not a very intensive demand on resources so maybe mine isn't an ideal test case. If anyone IS using FW for both audio and streaming with the mini I would sure like to hear about it.