Note Chasing in DP

[dpcon]

Has anyone using Digital Peformer been able to get Key Switches to trigger over notes that are past the "note on" point? I just can't get it to work, even when I drag the end of a KS note right up to the beginning of the next it doesn't work (as has been the suggested solution.)

Thanks

[JWL]

Dave:

I think it was DG in another thread who suggested making all of your keyswitches dovetail, almost as though they were legato notes.

EDIT-- not working... hmm. There is a preference setting somewhere. Let me check...

[JWL]

Chase MIDI is the preference, but it's for controllers.

I think you have to allow the scroll bar to cross a KS on or KS off point. The problem here, which I've encountered, is that we often make our markers and start points on the downbeats when the KS's are set just before crucial strong beats.

I'm sorry to not have a better answer for you.

DG? Are you within ear shot??? [*-)]

[dpcon]

JWL,

Yes I'm putting markers before KS's but I have very long sections with no KS's so I wish I didn't have to scroll back a mile. No choice I suppose.

Thanks for always chiming in I appreciate it.

[JWL]

Have you tried splitting the long KS's at your marker points-- even if they are the same KS's?

[dpcon]

That's a good idea. I should just make sure there's a new note on at regular intervals. Also if you just click on a long key switch it will reset but that's another step added. So I wil try your idea.

[DG]

I'm afraid I have no idea how DP works regarding KS. All I can tell you about, in this regard, is Nuendo, where in the preferences there is an option to chase. You are given further check boxes to decide which events you want to chase. In this case you are looking for Notes. If this doesn't work, then you need to hassle whoever makes DP and tell them how far they are lagging behind the competition; this might get some action! Of course if it is user error then you'll look a bit of a twit, but at least you will have an answer.

Regarding controllers, in order to chase these (velocity xfade etc.) you have to alter the value on a continuous basis, otherwise there is nothing to chase. This is fine for xfade functions, but a real pain if you are switching vertical patches in the matrix.

DG

[JWL]

Thanks, DG. I knew there was a preference for chasing "something", but couldn't remember what it was right off. It was for event chasing, and it works well.

The thing about KS's is that it's not quite the same as CC data. As far as DP is concerned it is note data, even though it is really patch change data in function only. Dealing with note data functioning as some other controller is a tricky in concept. Most all of what I've found on the internet about KS is either from spec sheets stating that a particular app or plugin was KS-capable, or from other forums where users are pondering much of what we're discussing here.

I won't deny that DP might have some minor feature needs, but then I'm not using the latest version, either. Note data is conveniently sounded when the scroll bar crosses over a note on or note off point, but DP doesn't know a keyswitch from a regular midi note and as far as I know won't simply play a note when the scroll bar starts at a point between the note-on or note-off location.

While I like the idea of KS's-- and appreciate them much more in VI than in PE, it seems that some of the behavioral issues might be better handled as Patch Change data instead. I can't even fathom the idea at this point of reconfiguring all of my matrices to wean them off of KS's. It would take at least a month.

I'll do my homework, and then I'll make a stink with MOTU about it. In the meantime, I'm curious to hear how Dave made out with splitting the extended KS notes at his marker points. For now, that seems like the easiest solution.

[DG]

So, if you have a long chord sustained and you press "play" with your timeline (or whatever it is called) in the middle of it, you don't hear a sound until the chord changes? How can you work like that!!!!?

DG

[JWL]

Well, I never really thought about it, and it never bothered me until I started using VI with DP. Unless the notes are super long, it hasn't been a problem, but I'm sitting up at 3 AM thumbing through my manuals to get to the bottom of this and to prepare my strategy for presenting the issue to MOTU.

For Dave--

In the Setup Window, there is a feature to activate chasing of ALL midi events (or a selection a user combos and options for event chasing), but why keyswitches would not respond to this, I have no idea.

[DG]

@JWL said:

Well, I never really thought about it, and it never bothered me until I started using VI with DP. Unless the notes are super long, it hasn't been a problem, but I'm sitting up at 3 AM thumbing through my manuals to get to the bottom of this and to prepare my strategy for presenting the issue to MOTU.

For Dave--

In the Setup Window, there is a feature to activate chasing of ALL midi events (or a selection a user combos and options for event chasing), but why keyswitches would not respond to this, I have no idea.

Imagine sequencing the orchestra for the slow movement of the Emperor Concerto. You would have silence every time you pressed play. I wouldn't be thumbing the manual, I'd be chucking it through the window! Go to bed and get some sleep, 'cos as you know, I can keep this up all day...!

DG

[dpcon]

Just read all that you guys and thanks for your attention.
I think you both have it exactly right concerning DP's features and lack thereof. We are all used to rolling before note on to hear a chord etc. MOTU is way way behind in this just on the conventional midi side let alone the abundant KS's now in use. I'll post at Unicornation and see what happens.


JWL, Haven't implemented the repeat KS's but I will because it will help. The problem is as you know there are often two KS's very strategically placed in time along with controller changes so it might be more involved than I would like. Maybe there's a happy medium for critical sections.

[JWL]

@Another User said:

Just read all that you guys and thanks for your attention.
I think you both have it exactly right concerning DP's features and lack thereof. We are all used to rolling before note on to hear a chord etc. MOTU is way way behind in this just on the conventional midi side let alone the abundant KS's now in use. I'll post at Unicornation and see what happens.

JWL, Haven't implemented the repeat KS's but I will because it will help. The problem is as you know there are often two KS's very strategically placed in time along with controller changes so it might be more involved than I would like. Maybe there's a happy medium for critical sections.

Dave-- I started a thread at Unicornation last night on Keyswitches. (In case you are wondering, my user name over there is Frodo.) Anyway, Shooshie is always a most helpful resource-- but someone with the handle "dpdan" (not you, I'm sure) has coincidentally chimed in as well. Shooshie's suggestions are probably more advanced with setting up KS consoles, but dpdan's suggestions seem to fit just about where we are. It doesn't seem that dpdan is having the same trouble that we are, so that indicates that this "should" work via the chase preferences in the Setup menu. Hmm.

Could there be some other filter somewhere preventing this from functioning properly?

As for the multi KS's ocurring closely together, make good use of your ZOOM feature in the MIDI editor for greater precision. This is another reason in favor of having separate KS tracks.

Just for the record, here's the link the the U-nation KS thread.

http://www.unicornation.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11879&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

But, do let me know how the KS splitting works on your system when you've given it a try. I'm headed out to West LA Music shortly and will bring this up with them, after which time I'll do some experimenation on this when I get back. (Incidentally, I'm finally picking up my extra 4GB RAM sticks today from WLA Mus. Can't wait to see what improvements there might be...)

[DG]

Good to hear that it's being sorted out.

D

[dpcon]

JWL,

Hey it's working! I didn't know how about that particular "change duration" option and I'm embarrassed to say I didn't know that 'notes' was a chasing option in "set event chasing." I've only been using DP4 for a few months and don't recall it in DP3 but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway this is going to completely remove the angst of wondering what KS is active or supposed to be active.

dpdan is a talented fellow who is at the NS forum a lot.

West LA music? That's my neighborhood. Don't pay more than $100 per stick of Ram. Let me know if you do.

Thanks for the link!

[JWL]

@dpcon said:

JWL,

Hey it's working! I didn't know how about that particular "change duration" option and I'm embarrassed to say I didn't know that 'notes' was a chasing option in "set event chasing." I've only been using DP4 for a few months and don't recall it in DP3 but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway this is going to completely remove the angst of wondering what KS is active or supposed to be active.

dpdan is a talented fellow who is at the NS forum a lot.

West LA music? That's my neighborhood. Don't pay more than $100 per stick of Ram. Let me know if you do.

Thanks for the link!

You got it. Glad it worked for you. I really thought you'd had that option activated. Sometimes, these preferences just don't kick in. For example, I had turned off Consolidated Windows, but everything kept opening in CW no matter what. It can be really aggrivating.

As for RAM, I'd already picked it up today-- price wasn't much more than $100/per stick. No biggie. If it's not tax, it's shipping. Got it installed, but my darn G5 is only seeing 6 GB instead of 8 total. This, along with the AGP issue I've been wondering about just may warrant a repair. Problem is, I've got to get all my upcoming projects onto my laptop and old G4, plus the HD backup ordeal. If I can get through the next 4-5 weeks without taking the box in, I'll be okay. But this really cheeses me off. Why must it always be so complicated?

[dpcon]

JWL,

Hmmm, G5 not seeing all the ram? Haven't heard of that one but someone around may know what's up with that. Is it that not all the ram is matched?

Yes shame on me for not having the proper options set. I knew I had event chasing set but didn't realize note was a seperate option. Live and learn. I have had the same issues of preferences being glitchy. Had a problem today I've never ever seen: all note and controller info vanishes from the graphic editor. So I select a single one such as "note" than go back to "all" and everything shows. I need more ram I'm sure (4.5 right now.)

Thanks for being so helpful all the time.

[JWL]

Hey Dave-- all it takes is to have one problem to know what it's like to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. We've all had the experience where the difference between hitting a brick wall and reaching your goal boils down to a single button click tucked well away in some obscure menu. I'm just happy a solution was found-- and that it wasn't more serious than it was. Congrats!

RAM-- yes, all the RAM is matched. I bought my first upgrades from WLAM last year and made the mistake of ordering different RAM from elsewhere. The RAM was indeed compatible, but for whatever reason it didn't "take". I got my second 2 GB from WLAM to match the first 2 and all was fine, so I decided not to rock the boat and to keep it matched. Took all the sticks out, switched them around, reseated them firmly- but no dice. Still 6 GB with all 8 slots loaded. I even put back the stock pair of 256's to the same result. At least I know that all the sticks are good since they've all been seen in one config or another. It must be the computer.

(I dread having to send in my Mac right now. [6] ) I've got some road gigs at the end of June, so if I can just make it through those preps right now, I'll send it in before I leave town-- cuts down on the agony of the wait.

[dpcon]

Howdy J,

I hear you on getting repairs when they can be tolerated with as little grief as possible. I would ask around about the ram issue because I have a feeling there's a few folks out there who have dealt with it. It may very well be a hardware issue but I'm wondering if it could be a system problem. Just guesswork and I'm no expert. Wish I could help more. You can imagine what solving this KS thing has done for me - total change in workflow.

Thanks again,

DC

[JWL]

Cheers, D.

Hey you may want to keep up with the U-nation thread ons KS's. More people have chimed in with all sorts of different observations. It could turn into a really edifying discussion.

That's good to know about your improved workflow-- one less thing to think about, eh? I know the feeling.

Best,
JWL