This is the work around for Apples "Distributed Audio Processing" limitations I have been looking for!
Thank you for sharing the information.
Regards,
Stephen W. Beatty

Hi Everyone!!!

I have been reading this link and am interested in SvK's "No Latency" Digital setup.

I've got a couple of questions for him but anyone else who wants to chip in....please feel free [:)]

1.) I use as my DAW LOGIC 7.2 on a G5 2.5 DP (4.5 Gig Ram). I also have a slave PC on which I run GS3. Both machines have Digital RME cards in them and 16 outputs from the PC is run via 2 lightpipes into my G5. These 16 channels then show up in my mixer in L7. (MIDI runs thru a Unitor 8 MK2 at moment - got to get the Ethernet MIDI sorted out)

Now, correct me if I am wrong - when I play the GS3 I am subject to the latency of my G5 soundcard preferences (say 256) plus the latency of the PC settings (say 256). The higher I put either buffer up - the more latency I get.... So.....I experience "latency" here - I can keep it to acceptable levels by keeping the buffers trimmed down - but latency is present none the less....

Q...Is this what you mean by "no latency" (ie tolerable levels as long as you keep the the buffer sizes down) or am I being REAAALLLLLY dumb here and missing something really fundamental!??!?!?! - In which case SHAME ON ME [:O]ops:

and 2.) I notice that also with SvK's setup - you have a large amount of RAM in your first G5 - and I seem to be only able to get Logic to see just under 4GB of RAM in my system.....

so Q... Do you have access to 7 GB RAM from WITHIN Logic, and is this down to your machine being a QUAD? OR is Logic only seeing 4GB and you have other apps like Melodyne, Reason etc that use the additional 3 GB???

I am thinking of getting a second or even third G5 for the VI's and going down the YAMAHA 02R route to sum it all together via light pipe.....but this post caught my eye and I just wanted some clarification if you have time......

As I said - anyone else please chime in and tell me I am being a DOOFUS if I have this totally wrong....and finally - I am not new to VSL Library but new on the Forum so look forward to checking in with you guys often!!

thanks...... over to you.....

PaulM

You're not being a dufus.

I believe your RME card has onboard "no-latency" digital monitoring, so the latency is only going to be GS3's plus the RME converter latency (probably an additional 2-2.5ms). In other words, the RME card has a built-in digital monitor mixer, just like the MOTU hardware does. It's only when you route the external computer through Logic that you get an additional machine's delay.

You don't need an 02R, since your G5 is functioning as the mixer, but you can certainly use a digital mixer as well if you want to. I personally got rid of mine (a Panasonic DA7) a couple of years ago and haven't looked back. The DA7 is an excellent board - I just didn't need a mixer.

G5s can access a theoretical 4GB per program (about 3GB in reality) regardless of whether they're quads or not.

Thanks Nick,

Thanks for your post -

As far as the buss routing G5 is concerned, that is exactly what I figured - the thing that has thrown me is that SvK has his 2nd G5 coming thru the AUX channel WITHIN LOGIC on the Master Machine....therefore hitting his sound card and getting the additional latency. I also get that routing it directly thru the RME DSP mixer to the stereo buss gets a latency free signal (except for the 2nd G5 - or in my case the G3 PC) - but I can kiss goodbye to automation/eq/aux's/groups/ etc etc....right?

Not a viable solution for me anyway.

And with regard to the 02R - if I have 2 or 3 G5's and my PC G3 - I think I am going to need some kind of digital summing buss with each machine capable of throwing out upto 24 channels (RME 9652 card). I dont think RME have an 'in the box' 96 channel solution for G5's?? Not that I will use them all - but never the less having the option is good for those 'MONSTER MIXES!!!'....

I presume you do not have the need for more than 24 external channels bussed into your host DAW computer as you sold your mixer?

Also I am sure I saw on a post that SvK got access to more than 4GB of RAM - even though I "KNOW" this is how many all my collegues get - just curious if he has 'THE SPECIAL ONE' [;)]

HELLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SvKKKKKKKK............ARRRRRRRRE YYYOOOOOUUUUUUU REEEECIEEEEEEVVVVVINNNNNNGGGGGG MEEEEEEEEEEEE....... OVEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[voice dies off into reverb as if in deep space...........]

Paul...


Yes you have some tolerable, latency.....
Regarding memory...

Logic accesses aboout 3.8 RAM (old EXS24 VSL library....VI AU instances work differently, they access Their OWN circa 3.8 gig OF RAM, even when launched as a n AUplug in L7(when you launch a VI in Logic, it opens another programm called VSL-server and the memory goes there)....that is why it is called VSL-server.

SvK

So memory recap:

Logic 7 3.8Gig RAM for EXS / KONTAKT / HALION (this memory gets used by Logic)
3.8Gig RAM forsr VI's (the NEW Library dsoes NOT use Logic's available memory...it uses memory allocated to VSL-server)


You see on a G% the memory cap is 3.8 Gig per APP.......Logic is one App and VSL-server is another.

SvK

SvK

GOT IT!

I thought I was going mad - but as I am taking delivery of the VI's tomorrow - I didn't know about the seperate app.....

So basically if I load up my G5 #1 with 8GB of RAM - 3.8GB maximum can be accessed by VSL app and 3.8GB by other plugs within L7.

....and just to be clear if you install Bidule Plogue onto your G5#2 (as you have) when you launch the Vienna Instruments it launches the VSL server app and accesses, again, a maximum of approx 3.8 GB of RAM on that machine - and you use G5#2 like a virtual rack.

GENIUS!

Thanks for that [:)]

......Now where is my credit card.........!!!

PaulM

Paul,

That's it....

SvK

@svonkampen said:

So memory recap:

Logic 7 3.8Gig RAM for EXS / KONTAKT / HALION

Sorry, about to go off topic here but I'll try and make it brief...

SvK are you using Halion within Logic? Are you using a wrapper for this - Plogue again?

I just wonder because I'm constantly switching between Cubase and Logic and much of my sample library is in Halion but although Steinberg have an AU plug of it now, it won't load any patches/samples when used within Logic!!! That's useful!

I've just downloaded the Plogue demo but it's standalone only and want to be sure it will work as a Halion wrapper before I make the purchase.

Many thanks.

Colin

I've never managed 3.8GB on my 5GB 2x2.5. The most is about 3.2 or 3.3 before it crashes stone cold, and about 3.0 is the max for working reliably.

Paul, a MOTU PCI424 card can handle four audio interfaces with 24 I/Os each (if you use a 2408 interface). The other reason I got rid of the digital mixer, which I'd been wanting to do for years, was that it didn't have enough inputs, while the MOTU stuff does.

Nick....Of Course - the MOTU card does have a large multiple digital input capability - should have thought of that as my friend has exactly that system....

and yes.... I got to 3.7 and the G5 iced over and 'became as one dead' [:D]

Food for thought.....thnx for your input...

P

Ok guys,

3.8 maybe not ...but nevertheless in the 3s for EXS24 and another "in the 3s" for VIs

in any case ....beats the hell out of just the 3 for L7

SvK

Thanks again SvK,
1. Where are the samples actually stored in the host G5 or the node G5 or both?

2. When the program actually calculates the sound, does it import sample data and then export the actual digital representation of the sound or what?

3. What does the Plogue Bidule actually do in this network?

4. If this is a network, why wouldn't a Xserver work as well?

Regards,

Stephen W. Beatty

Stephen,

each G5 needs a dedicated drive for the Vis....

You also need to make sure that you buy an additional VI dongle for EACh G5 (they are 23$ each)

So my main G5 has a VI dongle For Strings I

My 2nd G5 has a dongle for Strings II

Plogue Bidule is only used on Slave G5 as a "host" for the Strings II Au VIs

SvK

@svonkampen said:

Oliver...


yeaahhh let me know ;_0

biss spaeter alter.....trink ein Koelsch fur mich.

SvK

Hi SvK,

I checked out Plogue Bidule again, but I still have problems with dropouts and bad audioquality, even on biggest buffer size.
How many plug-ins can you open in PB? When I load several (7) Plug-Ins PB seems not to be able to process all audio in time. On repeated notes I get bad audio.
Anyone else with good or bad experience with Plogue?
It seems to be a promising host, but is it capable of processing data when adressed on multiple Midi-Ports with Multiple Plugins? (G5 2.0 Ghz DP)
What are your limits?

And BTW: How comes you speak Koelsch?


Best Oliver

@svonkampen said:

Oliver...


yeaahhh let me know ;_0

biss spaeter alter.....trink ein Koelsch fur mich.

SvK

Hi SvK,

I checked out Plogue Bidule again, but I still have problems with dropouts and bad audioquality, even on biggest buffer size.
How many plug-ins can you open in PB? When I load several (7) Plug-Ins PB seems not to be able to process all audio in time. On repeated notes I get bad audio.
Anyone else with good or bad experience with Plogue?
It seems to be a promising host, but is it capable of processing data when adressed on multiple Midi-Ports with Multiple Plugins? (G5 2.0 Ghz DP)
What are your limits?

And BTW: How comes you speak Koelsch?


Best Oliver

Oliver ....16 custom VIs....

RAM total for VIs is 1.59 gig....

Regarding latency: Plogue set to 512 buffer, so is Logic on Main Machine......which means Plogue VIs arrive at 1024 (512 X 2) .....

I'm running ONLY VIs on Plogue (Slave) Celli & Basses

All is well

SvK

Oliver

you are probably just overloading VSL-server tooooo much (too much RAM)

that is why I made all custom presets, eliminating cells that are not needed.....

OHHHH almost forgot .......leaving Release Samples switched on WILL give you massive drop-outs everywhere....

System just can't handle it.......


SvK

Oliver repeated Notes problem

is DEFINITELY....release samples.......turn off

SvK

Dear SvK,

Release Samples is a good point, I´ll try that.
In my test setup I had also other Plugs running, like atmosphere, East West, Real guitar etc. But if Plogue is overloaded with the release Samples already (no other plugs,even though I have 7 GB on my G5) then it seems to be a pretty limited system!
Have you or anyone else reading this tried V-Stack? Is it probably capable of processing more Plugs? No dropouts?

Best Koelsch from Oliver

Oliver.....I sent you a PM

SvK