Chamber Strings VI - enough for Pop/R&B production?

[mattdean]

Hello everyone,

Just received my Chamber Strings VI and I'm thrilled! I ordered the Solo Strings VI after only 10 minutes with it [:D] This is one of the nicest pieces of software I've encountered.

So, I am a Pop/R&B singer/songwriter and use string lines often-usually unison and octave violin lines. I like the sound of the Chamber Strings, but wonder if it is sufficient for ballads when I want the lines to soar.

So, my question is.......Is there a big enough difference between the Orchestra Strings Violins and the Chamber Strings Violins to warrant the expense? Or should I let the mixing engineer worry about making it lush and suitable for the mix?

Thanks! Matt

[Guy Bacos]

For my ear and needs there is a huge difference, and the beauty of the orchestra strings is that it DOESN't sound like chamber and vice versa, so I don't think you'll
get the lines to soar as much with chamber strings although chamber is very expressive in his own way. That's my opinion.

[Beat Kaufmann]

@mattdean said:

Hello everyone,
So, my question is.......Is there a big enough difference between the Orchestra Strings Violins and the Chamber Strings Violins to warrant the expense? Or should I let the mixing engineer worry about making it lush and suitable for the mix?
Thanks! Matt

Hello mattdean
I made an easy-listening-demo for the "old" Horizon-Chamberstrings
CHANGES
and for the new VI I did another one.
http://www.vsl.co.at/de-at/67/4587/4590.vsl# and then press Three Flowers...

There is a very very wide spectrum of different Pop-Styles. The upper
two examples show a small part...

Have fun with your new Chamber Orchestra [[;)]]

Beat Kaufmann

[mattdean]

Thanks for the responses,

Nice demos Beat! The "Pop" I was reffering to was Top 40 Vocal Pop, not classical pop [:D] I have been enjoying the Chamber Strings immensely. Still feeling like i need a more lush string sound for the end of my ballads, though.

Guy, thanks for the input, you are probably right, that I am going to need to get the Orch strings to really have that soaring string line.

Thanks again.

[Dietz]

Hello mattdean,

there is an audio example available online from a project called "The Slow Club", which I co-produced and mixed last year:

-> http://www.serious-entertainment.com/e_slow_audio.html

Click on the title "Estate" to hear some nice jazzy/pop/ballad strings, programmed by "our" Christan Kardeis (aka. ChrisKard), using mainly the Chamber Strings from the Horizon Series, as far as I remember. - Be patient, the song is about 7 minutes long, and it takes some while to get everything happening [:)] --- and the audio-quality is only so-so, due to the real-audio compression.

HTH,

[Guy Bacos]

Dietz,

Did I hear that you are the singer on that track?

[mattdean]

Hey Dietz,

Very cool! Interesting production. I enjoyed that. The strings sound good, although I'm not sure they are as "lush" as I'll need for my tunes. My stuff is alonmg the lines of Brian McKnight/Celine Dion as far as production goes.

Someone has generously agreed to record a couple of string lines from one of my songs witht the Orch Strings to compare it directly with the Chamber strings. Should really clear up any doubts.

[Dietz]

@Guy said:

Dietz,

Did I hear that you are the singer on that track?

[:O] Oh boy, no. I would be more than lucky if I've been blessed with a talent like this. This is the voice of Hans Lang, the alltime "insider tip" of Vienna's music scene - since the early 80ies, that is.

Thanks for even considering ... [[;)]]

[Martin Bayless]

chamber strings don't sound like a larger section. let your ears be the judge, but don't expect an engineer to be able to fix someething like this in the mix.

[Dar32]

Matt
if it gives you any idea. i tried using the full VSL string ensemble patch as a playing patch with an orchestral set up pallet. And it couldn't take it as a fill playing patch because it was too full to sound realistic. But when i substituted the Chamber strings ensemble patch it hit the spot. And sounded realistic. to play fill ins.

And the lush and string swell respond of the full ensemble is great by itself. And in between spots. ect...

[mattdean]

Thanks for the input Martin and RK. This is why i want to be sure before i spend the money. It can't be "too" lush or it will sound weird, but I figured I couldn't rely on the engineer to make the Chamber Strings something they are not. I tried layering the GPO and some synth strings underneath to fill it up, but they just don't work with the VI. Besides, you can't get the srticulation with the other sounds.

Cheers!

[Guy Bacos]

@R.K. said:

Matt
if it gives you any idea. i tried using the full VSL string ensemble patch as a playing patch with an orchestral set up pallet. And it couldn't take it as a fill playing patch because it was too full to sound realistic. But when i substituted the Chamber strings ensemble patch it hit the spot. And sounded realistic. to play fill ins.

And the lush and string swell respond of the full ensemble is great by itself. And in between spots. ect...

Tricks and substitutions are fine but it's only a question of time before you'd reach your limitations if you're looking for the strings to soar. Apparently Mat has a guy who will do a midi track for him. Swell guy! [[;)]]

[Dar32]

I agree,

If you havn't spent the money yet. the big strings swell is the ultimate to have. Also if you have Garriton's strings, The ( CLO SUSR WXR ) patch is the only one that can stand up to VSL. Very Lush. But of-course not dry.

[mattdean]

Unfortunately I only have the Personal Orchestra. the strings aren't as good as the GOS. I am pretty sure i will end up buying the Orch Strings - I don't like to do things half a$$- I just need to hear them to be sure.

Adn yes Guy....he IS a swell guy to that for me!! [[;)]]

[Peter Chen]

I just recently got Chamber Strings, also. They were great on the first project I used them on--a rock thing, where they seemed to cut through the mix really well. However, I'm working on a pop ballad now, and having a hard time getting the chamber strings to sound full and rich enough. I had thought that if I played the part multiple times, it would sound like a larger section (i.e., 6 violins chamber strings x 3 takes = 18 violins), but it doesn't seem to work, even if I try to pan the different takes to try to simulate the players taking up a larger space. Anyone have any tips for making Chamber Strings sound Orchestral?

-Peter

[Guy Bacos]

Yeah, right. It doesn't sound richer because you're repeating the EXACT same recorded sound. No way out, unfortunately.

[Beat Kaufmann]

@Guy said:

Yeah, right. It doesn't sound richer because you're repeating the EXACT same recorded sound. No way out, unfortunately.

Hi Guy and Peter
No way out? > Don't become disheartened!
It is correct that the three records play exact the same samples.

But try to delay the second and the third some ms.
Proposal:
1st Track > Delay 0ms
2nd Track > Delay 15 ms
3rd Track > Delay = 30ms
Fiddle around with different delays > Best sound at...?

Another possibility:
Try to use for example a light chorus effect for Track 2. For Track 3 you also can take the chorus effect - but with other parameters. These three different track outputs increase the ensemble-effect in the total mix, I'm sure. While mixing the three tracks together you have to reduce the volume of the two chorused tracks perhaps (try -3dB?, -6dB? each). Trying is free of charge!

I wish you success
Beat Kaufmann

[JBacal]

1 tip you can try:

Copy your chamber violins midi track in your sequencer and slightly change some of the timings of the notes. Then transpose the copy of your chamber violins midi track up 1 whole step. Then pitch down a second instance of the chamber violins VI by 1 whole step with the pitch wheel. Combine the original track with this pitch shifted version. This will avoid any phasing issues and will make the first violins sound much fatter.

Best,
Jay

[mattdean]

Thanks for the tip Jay

I can't get the Chamber String to respond to the pitch bend. I have the pitch bend set to 2oo cents, but it's not working. The track is receiving the midi - it recorded it - but the sound is not chamging pitch!

Any ideas why?

[JBacal]

Right click on the big "pitch" knob on the lower left side of the instance. Choose "learn" then move your pitchwheel on your midi keyboard. That should do it.

--Jay