Hey DG, at these price points faders are not going to be responsive to every nuance of touch. JL Coopers Fader Master 4/100 is about $700. Four 100mm throw faders, touch sensitive, no pads. That is about as good as it gets.
I didn't like the Korg except for the pad sensitivity (it's fun to look at as well with all the lights going on and off). The x/y touch pad is kinda interesting but I would prefer the faders on the Trigger Finger to it. You know, you can adjust the velocity curves on the Finger Trigger faders using the Enigma software app. I dunno, for the kind of work one needs them for I think they can work quite well. The pads, like the knobs (easy there big fella), can be programmed all kinds of ways and even though it's not great drumming controller, it will send program changes and a host of other functions if you want to program them in. Hell, for the $160 I paid for it I think I'm gonna go back and get it again after realizing it's not so bad. It was a previously returned item already discounted. One other plus on the TF side is that it is mountable on a mic stand and so, can be placed where your hand is most comfortable. The Korg doesn't have a mic thread underneath it so must be supported on a table surface.

However, I'm getting really excited [URL=http://www.midiworks.ca/products/product_details.asp?productid=25&categoryid=22&category=]now![/URL]

DG

To address another issue-- partially related, there is the matter of repetitive mouse and keyboard tasks which could be simplified by using this:

http://www.ymouse.com/xkeys/xkcontrol.php

Some people may have their mouse, monitor, computer keyboard in front of them with their keyboard controller. I have my monitor on a mixing desk. Between me and it is a mixing board. In front of that is a pullout shelf where my mouse and computer keyboard sit.

My keyboard controller sits 90 degrees to the console, so having a programmable task controller within a finger's reach has considerable appeal.

Here's another option.
http://www.euphonix.com/post/products/mc/mc.htm">http://www.euphonix.com/post/products/mc/mc.htm

[:)]

Man-- I love buttons and faders!! It's clear that auxiliary controllers are about to take over completely!!

@JWL said:

To address another issue-- partially related, there is the matter of repetitive mouse and keyboard tasks which could be simplified by using this:

http://www.ymouse.com/xkeys/xkcontrol.php

I've thought about getting something like this for a while. However, unless I could find a controller that I can program to take over all the external devices apart from the MIDI keyboard, then I'd still end up reaching for tools and buttons.

BTW The Korg padKontrol is not available in the UK for a few weeks, so I haven't decided what to do about that yet.

DG

@JWL said:

To address another issue-- partially related, there is the matter of repetitive mouse and keyboard tasks which could be simplified by using this:

http://www.ymouse.com/xkeys/xkcontrol.php

I've thought about getting something like this for a while. However, unless I could find a controller that I can program to take over all the external devices apart from the MIDI keyboard, then I'd still end up reaching for tools and buttons.
....

DG

True.

So, when do we start designing the ideal controller for DAWs? [:D]

@JWL said:

To address another issue-- partially related, there is the matter of repetitive mouse and keyboard tasks which could be simplified by using this:

http://www.ymouse.com/xkeys/xkcontrol.php

I've thought about getting something like this for a while. However, unless I could find a controller that I can program to take over all the external devices apart from the MIDI keyboard, then I'd still end up reaching for tools and buttons.
....

DG

True.

So, when do we start designing the ideal controller for DAWs? [:D]
I think that we already have [H] However, until we see how MIR (for those people interested in such things Christian) is integrated the exercise will be rather hypothetical.

DG

Well, I'm all for anything that will simplify repetitive moves.

I'm also concerned about MIR's demand on system resources. The demo video hinted at MIR doing its most important rendering offline because of limited CPU power available at the moment. Running MIR along side DP or Logic will certainly spread processing resources a little thin "like so much butter over a slice of bread"...

I'm struggling at times with 6 instances of VI and one instance of Altiverb...

@JWL said:

Well, I'm all for anything that will simplify repetitive moves.

I'm also concerned about MIR's demand on system resources. The demo video hinted at MIR doing its most important rendering offline because of limited CPU power available at the moment. Running MIR along side DP or Logic will certainly spread processing resources a little thin "like so much butter over a slice of bread"...

I'm struggling at times with 6 instances of VI and one instance of Altiverb...

But you won't be running MIR alongside anything. Firstly it only works on PC (ATM) and secondly it will need it's own machine, so it won't affect any of your current CPU or memory resources.

DG

@JWL said:

Well, I'm all for anything that will simplify repetitive moves.

I'm also concerned about MIR's demand on system resources. The demo video hinted at MIR doing its most important rendering offline because of limited CPU power available at the moment. Running MIR along side DP or Logic will certainly spread processing resources a little thin "like so much butter over a slice of bread"...

I'm struggling at times with 6 instances of VI and one instance of Altiverb...

But you won't be running MIR alongside anything. Firstly it only works on PC (ATM) and secondly it will need it's own machine, so it won't affect any of your current CPU or memory resources.

DG

Well-- that's good news (in a way....)

But, we Mac folks won't be left out in the cold for long (will we?) I just hope not to try to run XP or Vista on an Intel with the hopes of getting MIR to work properly. Altiverb will have to suffice for now--

---but have you heard CSR from IK Multimedia? They have a scaled down version of it with Miroslav Philharmonik, and it really doesn't sound bad at all. Maybe if IKM can get its CPU act together I may pick up the full version. It has a certain warmth and interactive quality I like... at least for the settings they offer with their orch library.

@Another User said:

---but have you heard CSR from IK Multimedia? They have a scaled down version of it with Miroslav Philharmonik, and it really doesn't sound bad at all. Maybe if IKM can get its CPU act together I may pick up the full version. It has a certain warmth and interactive quality I like... at least for the settings they offer with their orch library.

No, I know nothing about this. I may check it out today, if the kids will let me.............!

DG

All this just makes me miss the days of having outboard hardware gear. Audio and MIDI were a simple matter of plug-n-playI'm not completely sure how it works, but I've nearly decided that if I can't connect audio and run MIDI via my MTP and 2408 --OR-- get my CPU hungry components into some sort of an outboard hardware box, it may not be worth the expensive experiment to dink around with networks-- at least not until we know more about where Mac is going-- or not going.

Honestly, I'm not really tickled about having to buy a second or third Mac to create a latency-ridden network. I'm certainly not anxious to start in on a Windows system, and there is way too much mystery around the IntelMac towers at the moment. Potentially, $20k is a modest estimate for everything required just to get VI running, but these days the gear and software has to pay for itself in 2-3 months max before it makes fiscal sense. For the cost, one could easily be paying for the software and hardware long after it has become obsolete. Already, we face a serious PCI-to-PCIe upgrade issue. There are some questions about FW400 since it's still too costly to temper iPod prices. Do I dump FW400 and swap everything out for FW800 or an eSATA setup? All of these issues only add to the cost of keeping up. We're doing less building up our systems than we are simply replacing the same bits and pieces.

There's got to be more to it that just the aesthetics of pure geekdom.

Right now, I'm spending half my time worrying about tech issues and the other half of my time talking about them. I exaggerate-- actually, I've done about an hour's worth of orchestral music this past week, but 90% of it was NOT done in VI. This really feels like some type of brick wall with considerable limits with what can be done. Syncrosoft hasn't helped-- and this reminds me of why this entire thread was started in the first place: tech hurdles and computer glitches.

The next three months for me will be spent doing live concerts, which will come as a relief from computer woes. I'll not be digging into VI again until July or so, and I almost dread what developments will transpire between now and then.

Bootcamp. Sounds like a rough few months of painful training to me.

@JWL said:

The next three months for me will be spent doing live concerts, which will come as a relief from computer woes. I'll not be digging into VI again until July or so, and I almost dread what developments will transpire between now and then.

Bootcamp. Sounds like a rough few months of painful training to me.

At least many of the gremlins that seem to be affecting you Mac users will have been worked out by the time you are ready to delve into VI again. However, I don't envy your next few months; I've done enough touring round the armpits of England to last a lifetime...!

DG

@JWL said:

The next three months for me will be spent doing live concerts, which will come as a relief from computer woes. I'll not be digging into VI again until July or so, and I almost dread what developments will transpire between now and then.

Bootcamp. Sounds like a rough few months of painful training to me.

At least many of the gremlins that seem to be affecting you Mac users will have been worked out by the time you are ready to delve into VI again. However, I don't envy your next few months; I've done enough touring round the armpits of England to last a lifetime...!

DG

LOL!!

Fortunately, these are all conducting engagements with fine orchestras in the US and Canada. I don't think I could ever go back to the five-gig-a-week routine on a bus.

The nicest thing about these gigs is that they will be the first I've done since getting VI. I'll be listening with "new ears". Perhaps I'll bring home some insights that may help my VI work, and I hope you are quite right that certain Mac-related issues will have passed their growing pains.

@JWL said:

Fortunately, these are all conducting engagements with fine orchestras in the US and Canada. I don't think I could ever go back to the five-gig-a-week routine on a bus.

Oh, I never travelled on the bus. I might have had to talk to some of the players in that situation [[:|]]

DG

@JWL said:

Fortunately, these are all conducting engagements with fine orchestras in the US and Canada. I don't think I could ever go back to the five-gig-a-week routine on a bus.

Oh, I never travelled on the bus. I might have had to talk to some of the players in that situation [[[:|]]]

DG

Haha, as the memories come flooding back. Brass players playing cards at the back of the bus, fleecing all and sundry, the W/W holding esoteric conversations about how to fix the planet, and the strings bickering over the worth or not of the new carbon fibre bow or those 'modern' strings. The percussionists tapping on everything, and everyone asking questions about the programme and the gig with a new conductor, all laced with a healthy dose of cynicism, and somewhat unhealthy laughter. It was like being in the secret services with all the plans being hatched to 'test' the mettle of the most recent baton waver. I was fortunate to play in a theatre orchestra before taking the contract as a conductor, so i was wise to some of the shenanigans, but still had a torrid time the first couple of weeks.
And there are worse places than armpits to play!

Regards,

Alex. [[[:|]]]

Alex-- spoken like some who knows-- perhaps a little "too much"!! How well I remember-- and how hard I've tried to forget!!

OK next thought. Do you think that something like X-Keys could be programmed easily? there is even a version with a joystick that might come in handy...!

DG