Do you have full range monitoring? (20Hz to at least 20Khz quasi linear)

sorry that i answer a question with a question...

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probably not. I have to monitor on headphones a lot. and my monitors aren't huge nor do I have a sub. I have alesis m1 active mark 2 and sony mdr-v900 headphones

I have the original Alesis m1 but also use headphones and a consumer sub and satellite set (with two extra sets of consumer speakers wired in different rooms as well). I find that I can get a good sound by monitoring between all these options to get a pleasant bass sound that is solid but not over balanced. That said, one of my secret weapons is spectrafoo. By comparing my mix to a professional recording using the graphic display I can see with my eyes what my ears can't tell me.

Clark

@magates said:

I am interested to hear if you are able to get that almost rumbling cinematic bass in your mixes. ....

Hi
Not massiv, but to some extent a first possibility.
Link: http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/tipspcmusic/vslacoustics/index.php#53248296fa0104021

The subbass frequency is very low. Therefore you can't locate its sound.
For that reason you also can increase the volume quite a lot.
So it is up to you to make it as "massiv" as you want.
My example shows, that you don't need a very loud subbass.
Its presence alone makes the difference. What do you think?

All the best

Beat Kaufmann

@magates said:

.....that almost rumbling cinematic bass in your mixes.

I don't mix myself, that is done by the MixMaster, however i have to render the tracks for mix after composing/arranging... certain low sounds just have that sonic, spectral qualities who make them booming in the final product, other can be prepared to boom. The most important factor to do so is the reverb applied, no so much the EQ'ing. The sounds are selected for this booming qualities in the first place, respectively you know which patches kick stomach. Another factor is that we ad sometime a bass unison a octave below, quasi a extra "suboctave" with a sinus wave type sound which is just brought up a tiny bit till the room, or speaker cabinet starts the low "oscillating". This sounds are designed specially for this purpose. All pretty much a very subtle art, and each time a little different.

To have that all under control, you need full range monitoring in a room who is reliable. No way you can control that thru headphones, you would play lottery with your mix. Headphones base on another principle: The human related psychoacoustics with stereo headphones are not the same as for two-channel loudspeaker stereophony. If the audio is binaural (dummy head recording), mixing thru headphone in mandatory. If the mix is for two-channel loudspeaker stereophony, you can't use headphones. I use diffuse-field equalized headphones, designed strictly to IRT, when making surgical editing i.e. cleaning up final tracks for mixing. AT the end you still have artificial low end enhancing at your hand, to push it even further. "JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE BASS PLEASE"!!!

Regards

Angelo Clematide
Producer, Composer, Arranger, Engineer...
Bruce Swedien Enterprises - Miami Music Box
Florida and Switzerland
Chef d’Orchestre De Saint Imaginaire

.

Good advice, Angelo --- just one little thing:

@Angelo Clematide said:

[...] I don't mix myself, that is done by the MixMaster [...]

Angelo Clematide
Producer, Composer, Arranger, Engineer...
Bruce Swedien Enterprises - Miami Music Box
Florida and Switzerland
Chef d'Orchestre De Saint Imaginaire

You don't mean to say that your arrangements are mixed by Bruce Swedien, do you ... ?!? [[:|]] ... If so, then I to begrudge you this honour! [+o(]

Hi angelo and thanks for the proper tech.

When we got into digital mixing, the whole spectram changed. You have to monitor with accurate speakers loud, get the proper sub basses that never existed before.and the only way to have complete control is automating. I use triple massenburge EQ's to bring out the low subs, you can make your mixes come out of your ordinary speakers and sound like a sub woofer. And also dietz is also correct. theoretically you don't have to for final mastering. but I alway's push the envelope and create cres. sub basses with mod wheel control as new aproaches open up. Please don't ask for reference, because I hate and love mixing and have to aproach it only in the proper mixing hours for the neighbors not to complain. Plus I wait for the complete CD is complete to re route my studio for mixing and final escape back to a life.

Forgot to mention of-course important towards bass.
The movie industry is based on a 24 bit DVD mix. Thats a luxury for mixing. The theatres rumble and shake. With orchestration.

While the recording industry is 16 bit unconscious.

magates, most low-end muddiness problems are between maybe 150 -300Hz (possibly starting a little lower), while the rumble you're talking about is from about 80Hz down. The two issues aren't necessarily connected, in other words.

Sometimes cloudiness problems have to do with the reverb rather than the direct sound. My instinct would be to try filtering the reverb send, especially on bass drums - if that's how you have it set up in your mixes (i.e. you're not using a convolution processor in-line).

I am now using a convultion reverb. I am not sure where a channel eq comes in line but I assume it's before being bussed to the reverb. There are some good peices of advice here. I am going to keep trying to improve.

Thanks.

You know, I'm not sure I agree with myself when I say "especially on bass drums," because they're used so sparsely and are therefore not likely to be causing your boominess problems.

@Dietz said:

You don't mean to say that your arrangements are mixed by Bruce Swedien, do you ... ?!? [[:|]] ... If so, then I to begrudge you this honour! [+o(]

That's the way it is!

Dietz, as part of VSL, be honored too (begrudging is not positive).

We love your VSL library, would even say Bruce is a fan of it. Since
a couple of months MixMasterDeluxe's standard question is:
"Are this strings made with VSL?", well, the question sounds more
like a request, almost a order... [:)]

Thank You!!!

Angelo

[H] [H] [H]

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I have to admit - I'm seriously impressed.

@Dietz said:

I have to admit - I'm seriously impressed.

We with your Library too!!! Thanks Dietz & all at VSL!

You can visit us anytime you come to Florida or Switzerland,
but you may run into some work then...!



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@Dietz said:

You don't mean to say that your arrangements are mixed by Bruce Swedien, do you ... ?!? [[:|]] ... If so, then I to begrudge you this honour! [+o(]

That's the way it is!



Man, I´d really love to hear how Swedien is mixing the VSL stuff. No chance of posting something? Or could you send me something privately?
I´d really appreciate that!

Mathis ---> No chance of posting something?

Angelo ---> Mathis, i can't do that. Once the first production using VSL is in the store, i may place a link to a *.mp3 or two.

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Just rolloff the very low frequencies (50Hz down), then compress the bass and turn it up.It works for me...

Welcome Keybo -

I think a (hard, steep) roll-off below 50 Hz is taking away too much real bass. Especially for a "cinematic" experience my mixed go further down for almost an octave (i.e. I roll off at 25-30 Hz). Any monitoring system deserving that name should be able to reproduce this frequency range, at least above 35 Hz.

Compressing the low-end is crucial for a tight bass, in this case you're absolutely right.

Kind regards,

I am not talking bass guitar. I am talking timpani, basses, tuba, bass drum etc... that covers a wide spectrum of mics or mix channels making it a little more complex.

@magates said:

I am not talking bass guitar.[...].

We didn't either! [:)]