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  • Pictures at an Exhibition

    I'm very happy to announce a production of the complete version of

    PICTURES AT AN EXHIBITION

    by Modest Moussorgsky
    orchestrated by Maurice Ravel
    programmed/conducted by Christian Kardeis
    mixed by Dietz Tinhof.

    http://vsl.co.at/en-us/67/3920/4698.vsl(link updated by Dietz)

    This version was produced with Vienna Symphonic Library Pro Edition and Horizon samples.
    Special guest: Alto saxophone (part of our upcoming Vienna Instrument - Saxophones)

    Further the mix was realised exclusively using our impulse responses of the Wiener Konzerthaus, which will be part of our upcoming MIR mixing engine.

    It's not a MIR mix, it was done in Nuendo and ProTools, but an important aspect of the whole production was to develop an ideal workflow and the design of the MIR engine user interface.

    We've also rendered a surround version with our MIR impulses, which sounds really very exciting. Maybe Dietz will offer a multitrack download for one or two titles in surround later.

    thanks a lot to the "Picture" production team.
    Herb

  • Regarding the 5.1-versions, I would suggest a *.wma (i.e. Windows Media Player 9) discrete multichannel file format. This brings the huge surround-file down to a reasonable size, much like mp3, but even better sounding. The main problem seems to be that this format will only play as a stereo-downmix on a Mac - don't ask me why; I've got this information directly from Microsoft.

    I'm still investigating, but if there are any suggestions, please let me know them. - The only alternative would be a (compressed) linear PCM-version with channel-coded file-names; this would be an enormous download, though.

    ... in any case - don't miss the surround-version! It is really rewarding to get this amount of depth and detail. [:)]

    Enjoy,

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Wow... absolutely amazing. And really nice room! Cant wait to get hold of this myself!

    Dietz - can you comment on your mixing approach. Was it an overall mix, or did you tamper with each instrument etc.

  • Thanks for the kind words, Christian. The programming is the main part of the great result. Christian Kardeis (aka "CK" on these pages) did an incredible job.

    The approach I took for mixing is not _that_ interesting, as I deliberately chose a very tedious way of applying hand-selected sets of multi-impulse-responses for each single instrument and/or ensemble one by one. This lead to literally hundreds of audio tracks during mixdown (direct signals in stereo, plus up to seven tracks of rendered reverb for each of them, due to the fact that I worked on the stereo version and the surround-version side-by-side). This is not a real-world scenario for our users, but for me it was an important step to get a better feel about the Do's and Dont's of MIR-mixing.

    The panorama-settings are easy to achieve, as they happen almost by themselves, using the proper IRs form the real stage of the Grand Hall in the Vienna Konzerthaus.

    Apart from that, it was a very conventional approach of applying EQ whenever I felt that it was necessary, and some dynamic processing as well as harmonic coloration by virtual tape-saturation.

    The real magic happens by carefully _balancing_ all those signals level. For this task, Christian Kardeis put on his virtual conductor's hat in the studio to give me the necessary advices, with additional input from our Artistic Director Michael Hula, and of course Herb himself.

    Finally, some mastering with overall EQing and slight limiting happend in our favorite mastering facility, the Vienna-based Swoon Factory, applied by Michael Haider (also of VSL-fame).

    That's it, in a nutshell! [:)]

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • quite a project! It is indeed very nicely programmed.

    Would this whole process be slimmed down by having this as a MIR mix? It sounds like what you did for each instument by hand, is what MIR would be doing?

  • The basic idea is to have everything at hand in real-time, using VIs connected to the MIR. - While the artistic "vision" regarding balancing, tempo, dynamics and the like would still be something that the user ("conductor") will have to supply, the actual work involved will be only a fraction of the amount that ran into this project - both programming- as mixing-wise.

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Clearly a labor of love! Congrats to all involved.

    My two favorite movements were the "Gnome" and "Baba Yaga." Both very powerful performances and mixes.

    Dietz can you share any of the techniques you used for getting this kind of low frequency impact without blowing out the speakers.

    I also enoyed the new alto sax-- lovely classical tone.

    Best,
    Jay

  • Just a matter of instrumentation, Jay - this is the natural sound of our big Bass Drum, a little bit compressed by a (virtual) 1176, some tape-saturation added. That's all.

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Damn! that was fantastic - The Great Gate was just phenominal [:D] but why did you let the gong ring on - it should have been damped [:@] .

    The trombones and particularly the tuba in the catacombs were wonderful. That aggressive biteing edgy kontrabass tuba was a glorious sound.

    However, whilst the tuba solo in bidlo was very nice it's not meant to be. It's meant to represent an ox cart straining up a hill. The solo is in the very highest part of the range and should sound like the player is struggling some poor intonation and even the odd cracked note is called for.

    The muted trumpets in Schmuyle didn't work for me the change in timbre between the initial repeated notes and the twiddle at the end of each repeated phrase sounded unnatural.

    The entry of the organ was awesome [[:|]] .

  • Schmyule was done only using regular staccatos and a perf-leg (the Pro Edition solotrumpet mute freebees), we will update it with the full potential of the VI muted trumpet stuff. Performance staccato reps and/or fast reps should work much better.

    Dave, do you know if the tuba solo in Bydlo is sometimes substituted by a Euphonium or a similiar instrument because of the playability? If I remember right, I've heard something like that.

    best
    Herb

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    @DaveTubaKing said:

    [...] The entry of the organ was awesome [[:|]] .

    Thanks for your enthusiasm, Dave - [:)]

    [*-)]: uh --- but what organ ...?

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
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    @herb said:

    Schmyule was done only using regular staccatos and a perf-leg (the Pro Edition solotrumpet mute freebees), we will update it with the full potential of the VI muted trumpet stuff. Performance staccato reps and/or fast reps should work much better.

    Dave, do you know if the tuba solo in Bydlo is sometimes substituted by a Euphonium or a similiar instrument because of the playability? If I remember right, I've heard something like that.

    best
    Herb


    Yes Herb Bydlo is often played by the bass trombonist on Euphonium but that's all wrong in my view and it's only because pro tuba players don't want to risk fluffing the high notes. But (and I may have this all wrong) this is where I think Ravel's orchestration was a stroke of genius - if you want it to sound like an ox straining to pull the cart up the hill then have a tuba player straining to play a beautiful tune in it's upper register. I've played it twice and both times it sounded like a straining ox but I console myself that Ravel would have approved!

    Interestingly in the equally brilliant arrangement for large brass ensemble by Elgar Howarth the tune is played double forte by four horns (very epic).

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    @DaveTubaKing said:

    [...] The entry of the organ was awesome [[:|]] .

    Thanks for your enthusiasm, Dave - [:)]

    [*-)]: uh --- but what organ ...?

    Great Gate 48 seconds - come on theres an Organ Pedal in there either that or you've got 24 double basses and 8 Contrabassoons and 4 contrabass tubas.

    No?

  • dave i LOVE your overture to the marriago of figaro. it's really great!!

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    @DaveTubaKing said:

    Interestingly in the equally brilliant arrangement for large brass ensemble by Elgar Howarth the tune is played double forte by four horns (very epic).

    I think the original piano score of Bydlo is actually marked forte (or fortissimo?) right from the beginning. It was Ravel who changed it to pianissimo. [:P]

    Anyway, that was a very ambitious project, cheers to the VSL team! [[;)]]

    Happy new year too,
    Frankie

  • The old castle is my favorite so far.

    I hope (as I know we repeatedly ask) that the MIDI files and other relevant files (gigastudio performaces) could be posted so those of us can get a leg-up in getting up the learning curve. I find that it takes me twice as long to program and mix than it does to write the music in the first place. Perhaps that will change with VI!

    Nice job guys. Very impressed here in the Midlands of England.

  • Dear Forum Members,

    as a first on our Website, the complete mixes of the virtual "Pictures At An Exhibition" are available in 5.1 surround too!

    Please cklick on this link -> http://vsl.co.at/en-us/67/3920/4698.vsl (updated link)

    ... and download the new WMA (Windows Media Audio) files. This format will play discrete 5.1 surround sound with Windows Media Player 9. Please note that MS Windows XP with a properly installed surround sound system is mandatory, otherwise you will hear an automated stereo-downmix instead. Size-wise, the files are not much bigger than our usual mp3s.

    Mac-users will have to visit their XP-based friends, for now. We'll work on a solution, if there's the demand for it.

    You have to hear this to believe it [H] ... Enjoy!

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Forgive me asking a stupid question [:O]ops: - but I don't have surround sound speakers and only a cheap hi-fi thru which my PC is routed - but if I listen to this thru headphones will I get the benefit of the surround sound? I have XP & WM9.

  • I, along with many others, own a Mac: if (or when) you've decided to issue the surround mix for Mac will I (like DaveTubaKing) be able to take advantage? I only have Genelec 1029 speakers (2 of them).

  • Dave & Jamriding --- the surround-mixes only make sense with a true 5.1 speaker-setup (i.e. 5 full-range speakers and a dedicated subwoofer). Don't bother downloading them otherwise, the stereo-mp3 versions will fit your needs perfectly.

    Kind regards,

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library