So I just built a few small templates. One using multis and the other with just one individual instrument per instance. I used Berlin Woods in the SINE player for some of the tests, and Spitfire Chamber Strings in Kontakt 7 for some others. I used AU3 plugins in Logic for them, then another test with just the regular old VEP plugin. Guess which tests had hanging notes? Every test that used multis created hanging notes, regardless of AU3 or not. Every test I did with individual instruments didn't. Looks like Logic's multis are not only broken when dealing with adjusting negative track delays, but they give ya hanging notes with VEP as well! lol. Don't have a version of Logic 10.7.9 handy to see if it's a Logic version issue or not unforunately. So all tests were done on the newest versions of all systems.

@Dewdman42 said:

I think probably at least one of those things, I would probably exclude the MacOS version from the equation and say most likely its related to either LogicPro or AppleSilicon. You can eliminate LogicPro as the culprit by running version 10.7.9 and see if that is still a problem for you on your system. If it works fine on your system with Logicpro 10.7.9, then we will know the problem is LogicPro version 10.8. If it continues to be a problem, then personally I think that would eliminate LogicPro as the culprit as a general case....however...

Apple silicon as the culprit is interesting, hard to say why that would happen under Apple Silicon and not with Intel, but it's certainly possible that either LogicPro or VePro has some kind of Apple Silicon bug in there, ....but I am also suspicious that the problem might be created by Rosetta plugin interactions from either LogicPro or VePro...so what you would want to do is to try to run tests with enough tracks to stress it..but eliminating all plugins that are not native Apple Silicon, in order to see if Rosetta handling of Intel plugins in some way is dropping some NoteOff events somewhere in there. Just a theory.. I don't have an Apple Silicon Mac to try any of this.

Otherwise, I feel for those of you struggling with this. Any other information you can provide about you specific VePro templates, if you are using AU3 or multiple midi ports, enviornment use, etc.. might help, but so far it seems like this is isolated to Apple Silicon mac's, which are usually also running a newer version of Logicpro and MacOS.

can you explain in more detail the exact setup of your multi's? I can try to replicate the issue on 10.7.9. Please describe exactly how the various tracks are feeding the tracks. Unfortunately I would probably not be able to open your LogicPro 10.8 project file, but you can always try to send me that too and I can just look at it myself if it will load, I would have to swap in different software instruments since i don't own the ones you mentioned.

I would be curious if you get the hanging notes using those same multi instruments directly in Logicpro without VePro at all.

we might be able to really narrow this down and pinpoint the exact problem

what are the midi out channel and port out settings for each of those tracks in LogicPro?

also how many tracks do you have feeding into each vePro instance through AU3?

@Dewdman42 said:

what are the midi out channel and port out settings for each of those tracks in LogicPro?

So if I have the instrument set to MIDI Out Port: 1 (regardless of MIDI Out Channel) we get hanging notes.

Setting the instrument to MIDI Out Port: 2 (also regardless of MIDI Out Channel) looks like we don't get hanging notes.

@Dewdman42 said:

also how many tracks do you have feeding into each vePro instance through AU3?

Happens regardless of how many tracks you're feeding into vePro through AU3. If it's on Port 1, it seems to hang.

Also, when using any other MIDI Out Port besides 1, creating Aux tracks from the instrument track doesn't seem to work. Are Aux tracks created from the Instrument track in Logic (or vePro) not linked to the MIDI Out Port? And by Aux track, I'm talking about hitting the little (+) button on the Instrument track in the mixer. Not a huge fan of using Multi-Timbrel setups in Logic. I like the freedom to adjust individual instrument faders (unless there's a way to do that with multi-timbrel instruments I have overlooked without mucking about in the Environment).

KeplersConundrum, in your picture of Logic, in the Track Inspector I notice MIDI In Port is set to All (the default setting). Unless you have an exact and specific reason for having that default or any other active setting there, I'd strongly suggest you set MIDI In Port to Off on all tracks. That way you eliminate the possibility of an inadvertent howl-round event loop occurring, however momentary it may be. No guarantees, but at the very least it's good practice in terms of 'realtime-system hygiene'. I've no idea why Apple would choose the most potentially disruptive setting there as default. (It's embarrassing now to think of the many times I fell foul of that problem when I first started working with IAC Busses - or "ports" as they're now called - back in the old days when eMagic's Logic behaved impeccably! Lol.)

Anyway, you've done well to isolate your problem to your usage of Out Port 1. Now you have the option of simply avoiding usage of that Port - unsatisfactory and even annoying though that may be. Otherwise you might get caught up in endless nugatory investigations at home and fruitless dialogue here (likely as not for the benefit of some interlocutor's ego and public image cultivation rather than actual benefit for you.)

Oh, also, in answer to your last question above, the additional mixer tracks that get inserted each time you press the little + button on the 'mother' instrument track strip are in no way interactive with the track's Port setting. This feature - sometimes flakey in recent Logic versions - has to do with separately-numbered audio channels returning from VEP. It could of course become part of a special - 'virtual' - multitimbral setup a user might organise for Logic and VEP; but that setup and usage can be tricky and, as far as I'm aware, is very far from typical usage. Have a read of Logic's Help files on instrument mixer-strip aux tracks, etc.; that should set you on the right path without you having to answer endless questions about what you're doing and how you're going about it.

Thanks for chiming in Macker.

As for the MIDI In Port - Setting that to Off means I can't use any of my MIDI interfaces (MIDI keyboard, faders, etc…) And even when I turn it off, stuck notes still happen. Good to know that could be a thing to check if I run into problems later on though, so thanks.

I'm pretty read up on Logic's manual, and I've been using Logic's multis and aux's for a few years now in tandem with VEP with no issue until now. So I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that most of the problems I'm facing right now are on Logic's side of things, and not VSL. So until there are some fixes from either end, I'm unfortunately going to just put VEP on the shelf for now and go with a disabled track template in Logic.

Thanks to everyone who tried helping solve and narrow down these issues with me!

@Macker said:

KeplersConundrum, in your picture of Logic, in the Track Inspector I notice MIDI In Port is set to All (the default setting). Unless you have an exact and specific reason for having that default or any other active setting there, I'd strongly suggest you set MIDI In Port to Off on all tracks. That way you eliminate the possibility of an inadvertent howl-round event loop occurring, however momentary it may be. No guarantees, but at the very least it's good practice in terms of 'realtime-system hygiene'. I've no idea why Apple would choose the most potentially disruptive setting there as default. (It's embarrassing now to think of the many times I fell foul of that problem when I first started working with IAC Busses - or "ports" as they're now called - back in the old days when eMagic's Logic behaved impeccably! Lol.)

Anyway, you've done well to isolate your problem to your usage of Out Port 1. Now you have the option of simply avoiding usage of that Port - unsatisfactory and even annoying though that may be. Otherwise you might get caught up in endless nugatory investigations at home and fruitless dialogue here (likely as not for the benefit of some interlocutor's ego and public image cultivation rather than actual benefit for you.)

Oh, also, in answer to your last question above, the additional mixer tracks that get inserted each time you press the little + button on the 'mother' instrument track strip are in no way interactive with the track's Port setting. This feature - sometimes flakey in recent Logic versions - has to do with separately-numbered audio channels returning from VEP. It could of course become part of a special - 'virtual' - multitimbral setup a user might organise for Logic and VEP; but that setup and usage can be tricky and, as far as I'm aware, is very far from typical usage. Have a read of Logic's Help files on instrument mixer-strip aux tracks, etc.; that should set you on the right path without you having to answer endless questions about what you're doing and how you're going about it.

Setting the instrument to MIDI Out Port: 2 (also regardless of MIDI Out Channel) looks like we don't get hanging notes.

That is indeed very strange. I really wish i had a newer version of LogicPro so that you can send me a project to look at it, because i just really think there must be something else that is being left out of this discussion, but its hard to guess just based on your description and not being able to inspect your problem project directly. I find it very odd that Port 1 out would not work and Port 2 would work. please make sure you are not using more than 127 tracks feeding a single VePro instance with AU3.

Also, when using any other MIDI Out Port besides 1, creating Aux tracks from the instrument track doesn't seem to work. Are Aux tracks created from the Instrument track in Logic (or vePro) not linked to the MIDI Out Port? And by Aux track, I'm talking about hitting the little (+) button on the Instrument track in the mixer. Not a huge fan of using Multi-Timbrel setups in Logic. I like the freedom to adjust individual instrument faders (unless there's a way to do that with multi-timbrel instruments I have overlooked without mucking about in the Environment).

Definitely do not mess around with AUX tracks right now. I really don't think those are going to work with AU3 at all.

AUX are working fine for me with VEP AU3, also no hanging notes, but i'm on Intel, Ventura, Logic 10.8.1, multiple instances, ports and channels

KeplersConundrum, you're right: of course switching MIDI In Ports to Off blocks everything - including MIDI keyboards!

Sorry about my stupid mistake - working long into the nights on a major design update of my monster subsystem in Logic's Environment is not conducive to clear thinking during the day! I'd forgotten I typically don't use my keyboards at all when working with symphonic scores and so usually have all MIDI In Ports off to catch any accidentally unmanaged loops in my Environment design (which actually relies on carefully managed IAC Bus loops using non-standard routing).

Anyway, it's interesting that you've not eliminated stuck notes by switching off all MIDI In ports. And I agree with your pragmatic decision to shelve VEP, at least until we know the stuck note problem with Logic & VEP AU3 in Apple Silicon is history.

BTW I'm working with latest VEP AU3 with latest Logic in latest Ventura on an Intel iMac and haven't yet encountered stuck notes (although of course that's of no direct relevance to the issue in your Apple Silicon machine).

@ravez said:

AUX are working fine for me with VEP AU3, also no hanging notes, but i'm on Intel, Ventura, Logic 10.8.1, multiple instances, ports and channels

You are not specifically saying whether you are talking about using AUX "tracks", which is what I was referring to. AUX "tracks" are an undocumented way with AU2 multi-timbral instruments to create aux tracks for feeding the multi-timbral instrument, rather then the normal way. we're not talk about the AUX audio outs here, we are talking about AUX midi tracks. They do not work properly with AU3 instruments, at least as of 10.7.9, they do not provide a midi out port in the track inspector. If the OP is attempting to use that undocumented feature I would take it out of the scenario for now.

Based on the feedback from others that Logicpro 10.8.1 (intel) is working without hanging notes in AU3, I really think we have to isolate this issue down to either (A) Apple Silicon, or (B) something about the specific way the OP has their LogicPro template setup which is not immediately clear right now based on the descriptions so far.

Its not immediately clear to me right now that VePro is the culprit, but it might be. But we don't have enough information right now about the LogicPro project. But it does seem there are relatively few people reporting this kind of problem, and many others are not reporting this problem, but it does seem that Apple Silicon is a requirement for replicating the reported problem in some way.

@Dewdman42 said:

@ravez said:

AUX are working fine for me with VEP AU3, also no hanging notes, but i'm on Intel, Ventura, Logic 10.8.1, multiple instances, ports and channels

You are not specifically saying whether you are talking about using AUX "tracks", which is what I was referring to. AUX "tracks" are an undocumented way with AU2 multi-timbral instruments to create aux tracks for feeding the multi-timbral instrument, rather then the normal way. we're not talk about the AUX audio outs here, we are talking about AUX midi tracks. They do not work properly with AU3 instruments, at least as of 10.7.9, they do not provide a midi out port in the track inspector. If the OP is attempting to use that undocumented feature I would take it out of the scenario for now.

got it, thanks for explaining, i see what you mean now

humor me and extend the end of the region beyond the end of the last note.

I really doubt that is it though. I tried to recreate exactly your scenario above and no hanging notes. I put logging plugin both in logicPro and inside VePro...Last NoteOff comes in no problem for me here... So I don't know what is different for it, it's very strange. Can you make sure the plugin used inside VePro is native Apple Silicon?

@Dewdman42 said:

humor me and extend the end of the region beyond the end of the last note.

Note continues to hang with extended region and beyond.

@Dewdman42 said:

I really doubt that is it though. I tried to recreate exactly your scenario above and no hanging notes. I put logging plugin both in logicPro and inside VePro...Last NoteOff comes in no problem for me here... So I don't know what is different for it, it's very strange. Can you make sure the plugin used inside VePro is native Apple Silicon?

Running the most up-to-date versions of Kontakt 7 and SINE, which are both Silicon native now. Both players and any instrument I add to them create hanging notes.

I'm out of ideas at this point. Hope either Apple or VSL can figure it out.

its also really weird that its only the last note that is left hanging.