Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
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  • Interesting question and no easy answer. I will try to answer without taking into equation the emotional baggage that came with that release.

    If I would somehow pay full price I would say 3 / 10. Very basic articulation set that looks big because of plenty of redundant patches with similar content, huge amount of space on drive needed, but reason for that is not obvious (one of competitors also have 7-8 layers, but he managed to sqeeze it into 30GB library), fake sforzando (!!!), The Blur, odd slur legato, to small of a difference between vibratos + unrealised promises. And for 600 bucks I could buy at ease 2 or even 3 other string libraries if lucky.

    But I paid much less and for that it is... 5/10? Because shorts are awesome, pizzicatos are sweet, overall sound is clean, pure, raw + player is nice, although still needs work.

    But there are bigger in terms of content (and lighter on resources) libraries for less. So if VSL would say "we are giving money back for synchrons", I would take them without hesitation. I guess it sums things up.


  • This library is far inferior to all the competition and even VSL's previous libraries. Such a little amount of articulations for a ridiculously high price. I really like all of the previous libraries, but this one is no re-invention, it's a great leap backwards. This can only be fixed with re-thinking and re-developing the whole thing. I really can't understand how VSL could have released such a library. The "older" libraries are so great, playable and have so many articulations. This is a shame, sorry to say that! I'm very disappointed.

    I really, really like the actual sound and the Dennis Sands mixes from Synchron Stage, but with this library I'm not able to achieve this "Hollywood" sound. Night and day.

    The most disappointing things for me:
    1) room tone and reverb: too much, also on the close microphones
    2) legatos: no hearable transition, no innovation, no improvement
    3) missing portamentos
    4) various attacks: false advertising, only a stacked short layer
    5) other articulations: false advertising, sforzatos and fortepianos sound fake and stacked as well
    6) velocity layers: can't hear a great difference in timbre
    7) vibrato: missing molto espressivo

    Actually, I think they had to change the way they recorded and edited the patches. I'm also disappointed to see the same patches and the same procedure as in the older libraries (normal legato, slurred legato, fast legato). This isn't an innovation.

    I also wished they had made Synchron Player way easier. There are too many keyswitches. What about an articulation system like all of the competition, e.g. select a legato patch, have a slider for dynamics, a slider for vibrato and that's it. I expected something like in Spitfire's performance legatos in which a lot of stuff is going under the hood. You just play and the legato transitions are controlled by speed, the attacks (the initial one of a phrase, not all of them) are controlled by velocity and so on.

    Where are all of the announced innovations, re-inventions and algorithms?

    I will definitely keep on buying VSL's (older) libraries, because they are great and I love the features of VI Pro.


  • If anyone here wants to sell their Synchron Strings (FULL) version, PM me.  We can go to VSL together and see if we can organize a license transfer (we need their permission to do so I believe).

    I've got the standard version, so just need the upgrade ;)


  • Well. I think that ultimately, the library doesn't deliver.

    It has tremendous potential. The basic sound is three-dimensional, there's a sense of space, depth and clarity to it that you don't hear in other string libraries. I like the shorts, the pizz, the soft longs - great stuff. But the glaring issues unfortunately overshadow the positives.

    I'm having a real hard time with the cheap trickery used to create fake articulations. sfz and fp sound terrible and unmusical, because they're nothing more than sustained notes with some absolutely unfitting staccato glued onto them. I believe that the super shorts are just mangled and mis-edited versions of the standard shorts. Marcato is just staccato layered with longs. This strikes me as cheap, and should have no place in such an expensive library that's supposed to be perceived as absolutely high end. I'm surprised that VSL apparently thought that the users wouldn't have higher expectations and would be OK with this.

    Overall it's disappointing how little content there really is. The library offers only the most basic of articulations, which stands in absurd contrast to the humonguous disk space requirements and the very high price. Spiccato, detache, portamento, col legno, harmonics... all of that should be standard in 2018, especially in a library that takes up so much space and costs that much money.

    The whole legato thing has already been thematized more that sufficiently, so I won't go into that.

    I'm not sold on the many dynamic layers either. It's great for shorts, but other than that, I don't even really hear much change in the timbre and it makes the patches harder and more difficult to work with.

    The Synchron Player is intelligently designed, but complicated and there would have been way more intuitive ways to design certain things instead of employing all these patches and folders and dimensions etc. For example, a sustain patch could have instead simply react differently to key velocity for softer and stronger attacks, and have a normal vibrato crossfade control.

    So, yeah. It could have been fantastic, but as it is now, the price/performance ratio is a letdown and it all just didn't pan out. I'm under the strong impression that something went massively wrong during production and what we are seeing/hearing here are the salvaged remains of a project that for some reason suffered one or more catastrophic setbacks.


  • Hi,

    I hope that the VSL team is reading these posts, to know how their customers feel about Synchron Strings 1, and the Synchron Player.  

    I was very optimistic, and excited when they first announced Synchron Strings 1 last year, but now, I'm very sad, and dissapointed that this library is almost a total falure. What a missed opportunity for VSL to have moved a quantum leap forward, rather than backwards.  I really, really hope they get the message, and are not ignoring all of this feedback from their customers, I seriously feel they will do all of us, and themselves a big favor by re-developing Synchron Strings again from scratch, maybe a new team, and new approach. As is,  it has no chance of competing with other high-end string libraries from other prominent developers. 

    Cheers,

    Muziksculp 


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    @yilalatavsl said:

    1

    Thanks for posting your level of satisfaction with Synchron Strings 1, and Synchron Strings Player. 

    Let's get more Synchron Strings 1 feedback, and satisfaction level score on this forum thread from users. 


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    @Piotr Katzpersky said:

    But there are bigger in terms of content (and lighter on resources) libraries for less. So if VSL would say "we are giving money back for synchrons", I would take them without hesitation. I guess it sums things up.

    +1. To me, the biggest disappointment is how VSL treated its customers, almost treating us like its enemies rather customers.

    All of our concerns were never addressed. They were mostly ignored. The ONLY time VSL responded was the LEGATO BLUR (the ultimate cosmetic touchup). If it were only a TEMP solution, I could have empathized a little more.

    While the MIX page is a great addition, that tree structure is nothing more than a gimmick, but considered how many switches it requires to make an articulation switch, it reveals how poorly thought out the player is. I like the relational aspects of the tree, but it is nothing really more advanced than the original VI matrices. They could have used color codes to show such relations on a matrix, and  added the MIX page to VI and call it a day.

    If VSL stays numb as they have been, this library will surely end my VSL journey.


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    @stephen limbaugh said:

    If anyone here wants to sell their Synchron Strings (FULL) version, PM me.  We can go to VSL together and see if we can organize a license transfer (we need their permission to do so I believe).

    I've got the standard version, so just need the upgrade 😉

    I'm serious about this by the way.  I'm not writing 4 chord takio drum 8 unison horn music and could use a library built for detailed polyphonic music, which this one does.  If those highs and surrounds sound as good on the strings as they do on the CFX, I'll be in good shape.


  • 8 This Library has many well sounding Articulations. To say that all Legati are crap ... ? Listen to the Soft Legato ... very nice and emotional play here! The only Statement I do agree is, that the slurred Legato has a pretty unemotional Slur. Yep, and we need more „Movement“. The effects have shown that „movement“ like scaleruns make this Library pretty hot. I suggest to wait for the 3rd Package, which will probably will contain all what you miss. (I guess/ hope) And if this 3rd Package will fail, you sell your Library. I would not sell anything now, because ... just imagine the third package would have all the articulations you are missing like an emotional Legato-slur and different portamenti and runs, slides etc. ... [b]the basic articulations are still in the first package and you will need both. [/b] Think about it before you sell what you have.

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    @LAJ said:

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    I would not sell anything now, because ... just emagine the third package would have all the articulations you are missing like an emotional Legato-slur and different portamenti and runs, slides etc. ... the basic articulations are still in the first package and you will need both.

    I'm not selling either. But I would give them back if there would be an option 😉 Or maybe there should be an exchange program - library for a library of equal or lower value?

    Anyway, if there will be an expansion pack I would need to buy another ssd for that, not mentioning RAM upgrade. And why should I invest more money into Synchron Strings if - in general - they dissapoinited me? I'm glad that this nigthmare of a release is over though. Now I'm going to write some crap music.

    Free portamento expansion would be nice though and for that I can find additional 10GBs of space 😉


  • @Piotr I do agree that the Synchron Series is a Hardware-Challenge for all of us. That‘s why I hope that Package 3 will be a total match! I count on the VSL Employees and that they know this. SSD prices are falling at the moment because of last years high-demand-„overproduction“ and a much lower demand since a few weeks. It seems that the pricedrop will reach a peak in Q3 and demand and prices will rise again. Time to invest ;)

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    @LAJ said:



    I suggest to wait for the 3rd Package, which will probably will contain all what you miss. (I guess/ hope)

    And if this 3rd Package will fail, you sell your Library.

    But even if such an expansion came out - we would be talking about a package that requires close to terrabyte of disk space and would end up costing perhaps, what? Close to 1500 bucks in total? Only to deliver the same stuff that can be had elsewhere for half that price while being 1/10 of it in size. And you gotta admit, the least senseful thing to do after getting burnt on a purchase is to plan on investing even more in the same product. 😊

    The way I see it, SyS needs an overhaul at its core - technically as well as "philosophically".


  • Sorry guys, this thread seems to me either to early or to late.

    Even if everybody here might know that I am far from being the greatest fan of the Way Guy Bacos makes his demo snippets all knew from them for month how this library might sound. No one here has complained any of his little examples. If you have difficulties now to do the same with even a much more powereful playerengine, who might be to blame for???

    On the other hand keep in mind it is just a couple of hours that I finished the download for the Synchron-Player-Samples. Before I would judge my satrisfaction, I at least would like to have had the chance to establish my own workflow with the new library and its player engine.

    This is the reason why sometimes i remind my "old friend" William who is asking those who are the loudest in criticising, for their own musical examples. to be able to evaluate based on what knowledge someone criticises.

    Please keep in mind VSL-Samplelinbraries are musical instruments. You should learn to play them otherwise you are in danger to resemble the one who blame the Steinway for not playing Chopin for you by it self. What means the more powerful a library and Software is, the more you have to decide and the more it is up to your knowledge what yoiu can get out of it.

    I personally have some doubts that anyone could have had until now time enough to really learn and explore all possibilities to get good results.

    So here is my suggestion. Do not simply rant without any concrete example what you are talking about. Better give us all some days or better weeks to accustom ourself on the new software and library, learn to build good templartres, expressionmaps etc. and than let us compare what all of us have been able to make out of it, and which iomprovements we really would like to have. 

    The VSL-Team has invested a great amoumt of reflection and tedioous work to prepare such an already in technical sense absolutly outstanding product. They deserve a founded feedback and nothing as superficial as I can read here in one or another posting just a couple of hours after finishing the last download.

    HoweverI'll let you know what I think about my satisfaction with this library not before I have done at least a couple of projects with it.


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    @Another User said:

    The VSL-Team has invested a great amoumt of reflection and tedioous work to prepare such an already in technical sense absolutly outstanding product. They deserve a founded feedback and nothing as superficial as I can read here in one or another posting just a couple of hours after finishing the last download

    It is not an oustanding product and the feedback is warranted. If they have employees working for them that think this is a good string library for 2018, then that is very worrying.


  • I hope that after the disappointing Synchron Strings, that VSL will return to focusing on the Dimension series as their flagship line. If DS had the positives of SyS (increased velocity layers etc) it would destroy everything else on the market even more than it does already. In my opinion the Synchron line should be limited to percussive instruments, pianos etc. Anytime Xfades or legatos are needed, dry libs are the way to go. MIR Synchron Stage sounds great, and the different lines can be easily merged in this way. I still prefer the versatility of the silent stage for percussion/keyboard instruments though, despite how good as Synchron percussion/pianos sound and how playable they are. I would happy trade my SyS license for a preorder deposit on DS3, even if I have to continue to wait for a few more years lol.

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    @fahl5 said:

    Sorry guys, this thread seems to me either to early or to late.

    ...

    HoweverI'll let you know what I think about my satisfaction with this library not before I have done at least a couple of projects with it.

    I agree fahl5, and I wrote a "RECOMMENDATION" post about it... LOL 😊

    The VI Pro has always been the most flexible and powerful player on the market for years: Play is totally unflexible, and Kontakt is complex and intricate being a platform for development... both of them often not 100% reliable... so VSL in my opinion did it again, and Synchron Player is the most easy to arrange and the more flexible patch builder and sample player I've ever seen. It's my opinion, but I think it's almost undisputable after you spend just few minutes reading instructions watching videos and more important, experimenting with it.

    But...

    - sounds artifacts and naive solutions are still evident and objective: I can't blame customers being disappointed, as I was.

    - demos were already a bit weak... I had the hope they were made under pressure with unfinished product just to accellerate pre-sales and start pre-funding the expensive project. Now I realize some limits in the sound are unfortunately enbedded in the way the samples are layered. Extreme use of cross-fades and sample overlappings, even if made with advanced sound engineering, is a step back, is not a quantum leap. The probelm is even bigger due to the fact samples are wet, and everybody knows that it adds complexity for sound engineering and developers, to properly connect and blend them. This is again an almost undisputable criticism we can't blame customers for. The sound of cross fading and overlapping samples too often is going close to a "big-sample-synth-keyboard" of the 90's or early 2000 lybraries, and it's not the sound you expect from VSL.

    - VI Pro was more transparent and technical... I'm missing in the EDIT window the level of details you had in the VI Pro advanced mode... looking how many samples play, how and when, how many and what variations, how a patch is created and finally manipulating every little ingredient to the extreme detail. Now it's obvious Synchron Player has another target, and aim for semplicity and "non-disclosure" of tricks... (but let me be a bit malicious, even because some tricks are not very nice to be disclosed, IMVHO).

    Then due to the fact some "pure" samples in the lybrary are fantastic (not surprising, because great musicians and great technicians produced them), and the player is a fantastic concept, I still hope in the future. But now I have to join the number of disappointed people, with the already objective arguments we had above.

    P.S. For the peace of people "Wiliam-like" I posted already music made with Synchron and compared with things I achieved with Chamber, Orchestral and Dimension strings. Working on projects in DAW and in Notation, the most valuable new feature of Synchron Strings is consistency and dynamic balance. It really saves your time and sounds in good balance immediately, so you can spend time refining expression and phrasing instead of fixing dynamic inconsistencies across sections and articulations... I hope going ahead I will confirm this great feeling I had working with Synchron. My 2 (and one-half...) cents.


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    @Another User said:

    It is not an oustanding product

    From a technical point of view it definitly is above everything else available. Just to pretend the opposite, does not show very much insight in the current market of orchestral samplelibraries.

    I am still not very convinced yet from rantings like that.


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    @Another User said:

    It is not an oustanding product

    From a technical point of view it definitly is above everything else available. Just to pretend the opposite, does not show very much insight in the current market of orchestral samplelibraries.

    I am still not very convinced yet from rantings like that.

    The single most important thing for a sample library is how it sounds. For a string library like this, you want it to sound like real strings are performing (or as close to that as possible).

    It doesnt matter how "technically advanced" it is if it cant get the basics correct, or if all the layers and round robins don't deliver an improved performance.


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    @Eptesicus said:

    The single most important thing for a sample library is how it sounds. For a string library like this, you want it to sound like real strings are performing (or as close to that as possible).

    It doesnt matter how "technically advanced" it is if it cant get the basics correct, or if all the layers and round robins don't deliver an improved performance.

    The most important thing with technic is that you must learn to use it. Before trying that, you simply dont know what you are talking about.