Metal Mix in Vienna Suite

[Francesco Pirrone]

Hello everybody,

still using Vienna Suite for everything, including other genres....

that's the heaviest track I've used it on: https://soundcloud.com/francescopirrone/short-metal-cue

now clearly this type of music shouldn't sound compressed when it's only mastered at -9.7 lufs.

- I can't mix?
- I need to treat my room?
- certain mixes demands other sorts of compressors like API etc because these have different algorythms and they lead to different results?

Sincerely

Francesco

[crusoe]

Hi Franchesco,

Maybe you could point out some particular detail that you had in mind? I listened to the audio, and the guitar has too much mids (not TOO much, but still could be less), but I didn't hear any over-compression (for the metal mix, that is).

[Francesco Pirrone]

Hi Crusoe, thanks for your comment! I am glad it doesn't sound overcompressed to you.... Basically I used this track as a reference:

This is from 1989...... it's not super loud, yet mine sound quieter, less dynamic etc..... I simply wonder what is that stops me to bring my work to the next level, maybe it's just the equipment/room otherwise I must be doing something wrong..... Francesco

[crusoe]

Hi Franchesco,

oh, now I see. Not sure if I could be of any help here, apart from my previous comment. The mix is on the level where my ear is not able to pinpoint a specific issue (if there's one, maybe the performance before any processing didn't have enough dynamics in the 1st place?).

[Francesco Pirrone]

Hello Crusoe,

thanks for your reply: yes, the performance might well lack some dynamics......😃

well the main question is: can I get away with one compressor for everything? Can I use the same VSL compressor (with different settings obiviously) on instruments, groups, etc.......I attended a mixing class at ACM in Guildford today and my teacher said that's not a problem....then I can carry on using Vienna Suite as my only mixing tool. It's probably all about my mixing decisions. I sometimes feel like I can't shape the sound the way I want it.

Best regards

Francesco

[crusoe]

>> I attended a mixing class at ACM in Guildford today and my teacher said that's not a problem...

Even more than that, most modern DAWs have sufficiently good stock plugins that should give you 90% of the sound that you need. So let's assume you already know how to get those 90% and challenge yourself with the remaining 10%. Can this be done with the Suite ? I don't know, I didn't try this. For myself, I don't use VSL compressor so often. It doesn't have some options that one might need to make it the only go-to compressor (parallel compression, external side-chaining). So... it's up to you to discover how well it works for you. On the other hand, I use VSL EQ on pretty much every channel, works very well for me. Exciter and Power Panner are both quite usable, too.

That said, the biggest value of the vienna suite for me is the presets. They save tons of time.

P.S. Above statements are made about the "classical" suite, not about the "Pro", which I don't own.

[Dietz]

@crusoe said:

[missing] external side-chaining. 

The Compressor in Vienna Suite offers external side-chaining (on top of its internal SC-filtering), and as a matter of fact I use it quite often this way. 😊

Kind regards,

[crusoe]

>>> The Compressor in Vienna Suite offers external side-chaining (on top of its internal SC-filtering), and as a matter of fact I use it quite often this way. :-)

Holy cows! But wait. Isn't compressor a VST2 plugin and therefore can't have ext. sidechain (talking about Cubase here)? I must have gotten something very wrong all this time :) I mean, your answer implies it is not, and I'm totally confused now. Will have to re-check. Thanks for the correction :)

[LAJ]

But Dietz, what about parallel compression? As a matter of fact the Vienna compressor (that has an awesome sound) is my only compressor in the field which does not have this function inside the PlugIn. If you have doubts check all the other comp-plugs or channelstrips I use (Presswerk, Weiss DS1 mkIi, Pro C 2, American class A, EVO Channel, TubeTech mkII, Zynaptic Intensity) Please put it on your list! It can be such a great effect to put a very hard compression only a very little bit wet „below“ an original Signal (Horns, Drums etc.)

[Dietz]

I know about the benefits of parallel compression, thanks - and the feature is on the wishlist since years. It's just that Vienna Suite's developers didn't regard it as an important feature. ... *shrugs shoulders* ... but then, in times of unlimited channels and instances, it's so easy to achieve this with all modern DAWs anyway.

BTW, most of the great "originals" like Fairchild, LA2A, 1176, dbx 160 etc. can't do it either.

[LAJ]

That‘s what I thought. Thanks, Dietz. For the Developers ... You created great Plug Ins and there is nothing that one can miss, except this little, very powerful feature. If some developer doubts that people want that ... just take a look left and right in competitors-direction. Everybody has updated it or will soon update this feature. Even Steinberg saw that the people want it an implemented parallel compression in their plugins (although Cubase has unlimited channels) As I said ... the whole rest is perfect! And because of all the new Plugs I bought (and the possibility to „build“ it in the DAW) I do not necessarily need this feature „tomorrow“, but the dry/wet button is a standard today and would be a great benefit workflow addition. BTW ... I never bought a hardware-compressor ;) Thanks and greetings, Lars (And if you just are not interested to do it then the VSL compressor will keep being the unique vintage LA2A inspirated compressor in my collection ... man that sounds so „dusty“ ...)

[Dietz]

@LAJ said:

[...] BTW ... I never bought a hardware-compressor 😉 [...] 

You should stick to that habit - because once you're hooked it becomes an expensive addiction quickly. ;-D

[jasensmith]

Vienna Suite gradually became my go to plugs palette and it currently comprises about 90% of my mixes in all genres.

I think people reach for the compressor all too often and overlook the limiter.  Personally I reach for the limiter first unless I want to texture the signal the way a compressor does.  But if I just want to make something louder in the mix I go for the limiter.

What's the big deal with parallel compression?  I only use parrallel, or New York compression, on drum tracks.  Maybe others skin their cat differently than I do but basically mix drums down to one track, copy the track, then insert the compressor to that copied track, set the parameters of the compressor (I use a Vienna preset for Drum Room I think), then mix with the original drum track to desired effect.  Isn't that pretty much it?  I don't understand why you would want a feature for parrallel compression when all you're doing is copying a track and adding a compressor to it then mixing it with the original track.  So would this feature do all that for you?

Incidentily, it should be reffered to as parrallel processing because you could do the same with other plug ins too like a reverbed timpani track mixed with a dry track for example.

Along with the limiter I think the exciter is also overlooked.  I use it for pianos, choirs and even the kick on a drum kit.  It works wonders in subtle ways. A very nice plug in.