Some questions about MIR Pro 24

[PaoloT]

Hi,

After reading the various manuals and discussions, I've still some doubts about MIR. Please let me expose them.

1) Can MIR Pro 24 work on 24 stereo instruments, or stereo sources halves the count?

2) When I've more than 24 parts, can I group some of them, and apply MIR on the corresponding aux channel? I'm thinking to Flute 1 and Flute 2, or Violins I divisi as viable candidates to this grouping.

3) I'm working on a particularly dense orchestral piece, and trying to create depth and space between instruments is not easy with Space Designer in Logic. I'm using the Near/Mid/Far technique, playing with pre-delay and send levels to create a sense of depth. While this is somewhat effective, the final result is still a bit too monodimensional and crowdy. Will MIR give a more pronounced sense of space, stage placement, air than Space Designer?

4) Will MIR replace channel panning?

5) A final "blend" reverb is a must, or are MIR instances on the separate channels/groups enough? I'm very conservative in the use of effects, and would be happy if MIR worked as a spatializer, with no need for additional final reverb (if not for effect).

Thank you for any hint you can give me.

Paolo

[Dietz]

I would gladly tell you all the details, but didn't you just let us know that you wouldn't buy VSL products anyway ...?

@PaoloT said:

As ominiq, I will stop purchasing VSL products, until a more reasonable solution is found to protect the user. I can't feel confident to work with a tool that I will not be able to purchase again, in case the key breaks or gets lost or stolen. It's a very sad situation.

Paolo

Please be aware that all components of the MIR-universe are protected by an eLicenser-based hardware dongle, too. This is not very likely to change in the foreseeable future.

Regards,

[PaoloT]

When purchasing something, one takes some risks. Among the risks I'm taking, before purchasing some tools that may be useful to my job/entertainment, is that my investment will be worth nothing in case of accident. I'm estimating that I can afford this risk for some more money.

Another risk is to have to deal with the rough attitude of attacking customers from the personnel of the company one purchases from. It happens with car dealers, it can happen with companies selling music tools.

Regards,
Paolo

[Dietz]

 

It seems as you are mixing up cause and effect. I'm just asking the obvious after some of your recent messages implied that VSL is a greedy company that doesn't care for its customers. ... which is remarkable considering the fact that I could show you literally hundreds of forum messages or eMails praising VSL's support and its user-driven standards.

But anyway - as a sign that at least _we_ aren't distrustful, here comes the reply to your inquiry:

 

@Another User said:

 

5) A final "blend" reverb is a must, or are MIR instances on the separate channels/groups enough? I'm very conservative in the use of effects, and would be happy if MIR worked as a spatializer, with no need for additional final reverb (if not for effect).

 

 

The necessity for an overall "reverb-glue" is not a technical one, but purely based on taste and habits. As long as you like the results you're able to achieve, there's no need to change them.

As soon as you feel that some "algorithmic motion" might add some excitement to your mix, you can use either MIRacle (MIR Pro's Algorithmic Reverb Add-On which is part of the product) or any other reverb engine you like. Personally I would stay away from other IR-based reverbs in that case, though, as the non-linear modulation of algo-based reverbs will fit this task much better. 

HTH,

[PaoloT]

Hi Dietz,

First of all, please let me thank you for the detailed answer, that clarifies all my doubts about MIR Pro 24.

As for the other issue, I felt a hint of sarcasm, so I was maybe overreacting. I apologize for this. I'm very sad for the situation that has grown in these latest days, since I consider the relation between developers and musicians a fruitful collaboration, more than a simple exchange of goods.

I don't consider VSL a 'greedy' company, and I'm sorry if this was the impression I gave. I understand the need to protect from piracy. I've also appreciated the generous support I've received since I purchased my first VSL product, and I've publicly thanked your company for the great effort in providing useful tools even to less wealthy musicians. I've however noted how there is an asymmetric term protecting VSL's rights, but not the right of the customer of perpetually owning his licenses. I guess we can continue to disagree on this matter.

This doesn't mean I dislike VSL as a company, or your products, or the overall way to make business. We weren't here discussing, was it this way. On the contrary, I consider your company and your products indispensable. So, even if with great care for the 'risks involved', I'll be forced to buy your sounds and software.

Best,
Paolo

[PaoloT]

Dietz,

Thank you very much for the demo codes. I'll be happy to do my tests with the software.

Best,
Paolo

[Dietz]

Paul sent them to you, assuming that you would prefer testing MIR Pro rather than just reading about it. ;-)

VSL demo licenses work for 30 days and 30 starts. If you run out of starts within the 30 day demo period, simply use the eLicenser Control  Center's Maintenance function to "reload" them es often as you want.

[Paul]

Hi, 

Ooops, I actually also answered, like Dietz did, but I was too slow (and sent those demo licenses...). 

Enjoy!

Paul

[PaoloT]

So, thank you Paul for this opportunity. I've already downloaded and read the soundpack manuals, and I must say that they are very informative&evocative. I can't wait to try them, as soon as the downloads are completed.

Paolo

[mschmitt]

How does the licensing of Room Packs work with MIR 24? For example if I had MIR 24 running on 3 computers simultaneously, would I have to buy 3 licenses of a room pack (one for each computer), or does the the purchase of 1 room pack let me run it on multiple computers running MIR 24?

 

Thanks,

Michael

[Paul]

Hi Michael, 

Each RoomPack comes with one license, like MIR PRO and MIR PRO 24. 

MIR PRO 24 is designed to be a great option for an installment on additional computers, where you might not need so many icons, and for additional RoomPack licenses for your own use, you can contact us directly at support@vsl.co.at, we can offer 50% off for those, and the order will be handled in the back-office. 

Best, 
Paul

[PaoloT]

Hi,

I'm installing the MIR Demo in my main Mac, and I see that the installer prompts the internal drive's Application Support folder as the suggested target. Can I choose the same external drive in which I keep all the sample libraries, instead? I would like to keep everything of VSL in a single place, easy to move from one computer to the other, when I need.

Thanx!

Paolo

[Dietz]

You can install the RoomPack data (i.e. the IRs) anywhere you like, but I wouldn't change the actual application's file paths unless you have a good reason to do so.

The path pointing to the installed RoomPacks can be set in MIR Pro's Preferences.

HTH,

[Dietz]

PS: Don't move MIR Pro's settings file ("default.vmi") either. This is an important component for all future updates.

[PaoloT]

After a few tests with MIR Pro 24, I have to say that my first reaction was one of disconcert. Coming from traditional reverbs, you have to rethink the way you mix. At first, you get something very different than what you expect, with a messed up image and too much reverb.

But after re-reading the manuals, one can quickly go after the very intuitive user interface. And some further researches in the forum posts result in enough information about how to use the dry/wet mix to increase the spot mics presence, and how to play with natural volume to adjust the instrument's level, or with the secondary mics to make the reverb less intense.

As a result, you start to no longer think in terms of adding fake space through pan, delay and reverb, but in terms of positioning mics, strenghtening spot mics to highlight individual instruments or sections, moving absorbers in the room to modify the reverb's length. It's a very natual way of working on your mix.

The resulting sound is very different to the one I'm accustomed to when at the mixing desk. I've been working with an ideal sound and an ideal space, that was not the real thing, but has became my personal idea of the real thing. Creating space and adding reverb was a matter of taste, of coloring my sound, more than of making it true.

MIR moves you into the real space. If you go listening to some real recordings, you understand that the sonic image you have worked with, before, was that of the world of androids: everything was perfectly polished, clear, not interacting with the surrounding instruments. It works, as soon as you suspend reality.

I compared a rough mix I'm working on between Logic's Sound Designer (Old Concert Hall), MIR (Teldex with reduced tail and wet signal), an old (and great) recording of the original piece. I would say that MIR, with its imperfect sonic world, is the nearest to the real thing. 

Paolo

[PaoloT]

Dear Dietz and Paul,

If I may ask, may I ask what is the level setting you can recall, in the Instrument list, when Alt-double clicking the volume slider? I would guess it is a second (louder) preset for the Natural Volume, but I'm still not sure.

Paolo

[Dietz]

Double-clicking the instrument's volume fader will simply reset it to 0 dB. Alt-double clicking will keep the relative volumes of several selected instruments intact when resetting the active instrument's volume to 0 dB. 

Note: "Alt"-clicking for selection-group editing is only necessary as long as you didn't activate the Preference for "Automatically edit selected channels as Group". Some people (including me) don't like this semi-automatic grouping feature as it can wreak havoc on your project when you're not careful. Be warned.

[mschmitt]

@Paul said:

Each RoomPack comes with one license, like MIR PRO and MIR PRO 24. 

MIR PRO 24 is designed to be a great option for an installment on additional computers, where you might not need so many icons, and for additional RoomPack licenses for your own use, you can contact us directly at support@vsl.co.at, we can offer 50% off for those, and the order will be handled in the back-office.

Thanks Paul, that's good to know. I know lots of people (including myself) prefer to have a few mid priced computers dedicated to running virtual instruments as opposed to just one mega PC running a DAW, effects, and virtual instruments.

Michael

[PaoloT]

Thank you very much, Dietz. I like how you can mass-edit more channels in the way one prefers.

Paolo

[PaoloT]

@Dietz said:

Panning devices might be needed pre-MIR, so to speak, to get rid of the imbalances of so-called "pre-panned" sound sources.

I'm thinking that the opposite may also be true: if you are sending more instruments (say, two flutes, two divisi violins parts) to a single MIR icon to process them as a single section, you can use panning pre-MIR to separate them. It seems to me that this places them in different seats inside the same section.

Paolo