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  4. Dimension Strings load time

  • Dimension Strings load time

    D
    D

    I have recently added Dimension Strings to my collection and have found that load times for these libraries are excrutiatingly slow compared to my other VSL samples. It makes sense given the complexities of the way that they are set up, but I'm wondering if there might be some advice available here so that I don't have to load up my samples overnight :)

    The libraries are stored on a 4 TB raid external drive connected by Thunderbolt (the drive is 7500 rpm). I am travelling at the moment and using a MacBook Pro with i7 2.2 GHz intel core processor, 16 GB RAM. My main computer when I get home is an iMac with 32 GB RAM and an i7 processor. I can't remember the rest of the details on that computer at the moment, but it has more power than the laptop. So lets refer to the laptop configuration at the moment.

    I don't have any SSD drives. 

    Thanks in advance for any advice.
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi, 

    Dimension Strings are loading multiple players at once, if you are loading the ensemble... of course that takes longer. 

    As you already have VI PRO, I´d definitely look into an (external) SSD drive for your samples. You will get up to 10 times faster loading, while only using 1/10th of the RAM. Connection could be thunderbold or USB3 (both are fast protocols) if you want to go the external route. 

    Best,
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • OceanviewO
    OceanviewO

    Hello Paul,

    Could you say a bit more about how the SSD only uses 1/10th of the RAM? I have 16GB to load samples into and I don't think that's enough for the Dimension Strings except if I use a part of it. So I'm interested in your comment if it means making RAM go further. Thanks.
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi, 

    "Streaming samples" means that a certain part of the sample is loaded into RAM, and after this small part has been played, the rest is streamed from your harddrive. 

    As SSD drives have a much faster access time, you can minimze this Pre-Load value accordingly, and load a shorter part of the sample into RAM. This works great with VI PRO. 

    For VSL samples, this means that you can also load up to 10 times MORE samples with SSD drives, in comparison with "normal" fast drives. 

    You can find this "Preload Size" setting in the Directory Manager, once you have installed VI PRO. 

    Best, 
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • D
    D

    Hi

    I'm having a bit of trouble finding an SSD drive (external/Thunderbolt) that would hold my entire library. It seems I need something slightly more than a TB. 

    Any recommendations as to which one and where it could be purchased?
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi, 

    You don´t have to fit every last little bit on the harddrive... but 2 GB drives are already available anywhere as well. 

    Simply purchase the harddrive and place it in a case of your choice. There are also many tests out there, for sample streaming, the reading performance is important. 

    Best, 
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD
    last edited
    last edited

    @daerp said:

    I'm having a bit of trouble finding an SSD drive (external/Thunderbolt) that would hold my entire library. It seems I need something slightly more than a TB. 

    You could split your libraries into halves on two smaller SSDs. Like that, they could use different SATA channels. This would increase the performance even further.

    HTH,

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • D
    D
    last edited
    last edited

    Thanks, Paul

    Of course you are right. I'm just getting used to having such a large collection. In the past I had my whole library on one drive.

     

    @Paul said:

    Hi, 

    You don´t have to fit every last little bit on the harddrive... but 2 GB drives are already available anywhere as well. 

    Simply purchase the harddrive and place it in a case of your choice. There are also many tests out there, for sample streaming, the reading performance is important. 

    Best, 
    Paul
  • D
    D
    last edited
    last edited

    Sounds like a great idea. Thanks for your help.

    @daerp said:

    I'm having a bit of trouble finding an SSD drive (external/Thunderbolt) that would hold my entire library. It seems I need something slightly more than a TB. 

    You could split your libraries into halves on two smaller SSDs. Like that, they could use different SATA channels. This would increase the performance even further.

    HTH,
  • P
    P

    Hi Paul - would an external SSD with FireWire 800 of my mid 2010 iMac i7 yield a strong improvement in regards to the loading speed of the Dimension String samples?
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP
    last edited
    last edited

    Hi positivemu, 

    I don´t know what your current situation is, but if you are simply NOT working with SSD drives yet, then: YES, in combination with VI PRO 😊

    Best, 
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC
    last edited
    last edited

    @postivemu said:

    Hi Paul - would an external SSD with FireWire 800 of my iMac i7 yield a strong improvement in regards to the loading speed of the Dimension String samples?

    Putting a SSD on a FW 800 interface is a non sense, the FW800 interface is too slow to handle a SSD at full speed.

    How old is your Imac I7 ? reference ?

    Best

     

    Cyril
  • P
    P

    My iMac is mid 2010. Unfortunately the USB is only 2.0 and the Firewire 800 is the fastest external connection I have. I assume that an external SSD through the FireWire 800 though limited is still notably faster than my internal hard drive?
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC
    last edited
    last edited

    @postivemu said:

    I assume that an external SSD through the FireWire 800 though limited is still notably faster than my internal hard drive?

     

    Sata II is 3 GB/s

    FW 800 is 0,8 GB/s

    SSD are in Sata III and are 6 GB/s
  • P
    P

    I'm sorry but I do not understand your reply, Cyril.

    My mid 2010 iMac's internal HD is: APPLE HDD HUA722010CLA330 Media, 7200 rpm.

    So my question is - will Firewire 800 with an SSD external HD containing VSL Dimension Strings load these VSL samples any more quickly than my current HD?

    Paul - I would love to hear your response.

    Thanks.
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi positivemu, 

    Cyril told you the data-throughput with different formats. Of course it is MUCH more clever to add the SSD harddrive internally in your computer (should be Sata II), this way you get a 5 times quicker performance than with FW800. 

    Best, 
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC
    last edited
    last edited

    @Paul said:

    Hi positivemu, 

    Cyril told you the data-throughput with different formats. Of course it is MUCH more clever to add the SSD harddrive internally in your computer (should be Sata II), this way you get a 5 times quicker performance than with FW800. 

    Best, 
    Paul

     

    Paul is right, but SATA II is only 3 GB/s, a SATA III SSD can go up to 6 GB/s

    You can put your system on the FW800 disk
  • P
    P
    Thank you very much for your quick reply, Paul and Cyril. Yes, replacing the internal hard drive with an SSD would be much better but a much more complicated process with an iMac. Though my mid 2010 iMac is older, the processor is a quad core i7 and so it is fast and powerful. I have also filled the 32 GB ram so I am invested in this computer for my studio. By the way I am using VSL Pro with Digital Performer 8.07. 1. My plan is to load all of my VSL samples (approximately 300 GBs) into the 500 GB FireWire SSD. How should I tell VSL Pro to look for the samples on the SSD instead of my internal HD where the samples currently reside? 2. Also - my understanding of how the VSL samples load is that only part of the samples load initially and that the remainder of the samples load from the hard drive via streaming. Is that correct? If so, can I assume that the new FireWire SSD will accomplish that somewhat more quickly for me? 3. Finally - as I read more about SSD drives and their advantages, I am learning about their fast seek times and how that can be more important than the overall speed of the SSD vs an rpm drive. What are your thoughts regarding the importance of seek times as it affects loading and streaming the vsl samples?
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC
    last edited
    last edited

    @postivemu said:

    Thank you very much for your quick reply, Paul and Cyril.

    Yes, replacing the internal hard drive with an SSD would be much better but a much more complicated process with an iMac. Though my mid 2010 iMac is older, the processor is a quad core i7 and so it is fast and powerful. I have also filled the 32 GB ram so I am invested in this computer for my studio. By the way I am using VSL Pro with Digital Performer 8.07.

    1. My plan is to load all of my VSL samples (approximately 300 GBs) into the 500 GB FireWire SSD. How should I tell VSL Pro to look for the samples on the SSD instead of my internal HD where the samples currently reside?

    2. Also - my understanding of how the VSL samples load is that only part of the samples load initially and that the remainder of the samples load from the hard drive via streaming. Is that correct? If so, can I assume that the new FireWire SSD will accomplish that somewhat more quickly for me?

    3. Finally - as I read more about SSD drives and their advantages, I am learning about their fast seek times and how that can be more important than the overall speed of the SSD vs an rpm drive. What are your thoughts regarding the importance of seek times as it affects loading and streaming the vsl samples?

    The samples will load less fast if you put them on the FW800 drive

    Put you system on the FW disk and put a SSD in your IMAC and put the samples on the SSD
  • P
    P

    OK - here's the update on what happened when I installed my VSL samples (approximately 300 gigs) on an external SSD (Oyen Digital's Minipro 512 GB) via Firewire 800 on my mid 2010 iMac (27 inch screen with i7 quad core processor and 32 GB ram with USB 2.0 and Firewire 800).

    A little background - using my internal 7200 rpm HD, it took an average of 20 -25 minutes to load a DP file which contained an orchestra of virtual instruments including Dimension Strings. In addition, it took 5-10 more minutes of playing the piece through for all of the samples to finish loading via streaming. So a total of close to 30 minutes before I could really begin working on an orchestral piece like this. By the way - The Dimension Strings are what really added significant loading time in my opinion.

    After moving the VSL samples over to the new external SSD and telling VSL's Directory Manager to look for them there, I opened the DP file. In 5 minutes, it was loaded.  Furthermore, in less than a minute of playing the piece, the remainder of the samples had finished streaming.  A huge improvement.

    In addition, Paul at VSL advised me that once I had the Firewire 800 SSD installed, I should reduce the Default Preload on the  VSL Instruments Pro Player from 32768 to 16384. Upon doing that, the VSL samples loaded even faster, taking only about 2 minutes to load and only a minute or so of playing the piece for the remainder of the samples to load.

    So now that I have added the SSD via Firewire 800, I have gone from a 30 minute loading process to a mere 3 minutes. So for anyone else in the VSL family who has an old iMac and does not want to figure out how to break open their iMac and replace the internal HD with an internal SSD, this is the solution until you upgrade your Mac. It is working beautifully for me.