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Hi Markus,
glad to hear you are enjoying the Vienna Suite, which i love. I think there are many ways to achieve what you have in mind: some people simply increases the send for Brass and Perc, other people uses up to 8 different instances of the Reverb and a combination of sends, panning and Eq.
Here is a method i find to be really manageble, it's from Beat Kaufmann's:
i create 4 groups for the sections and i route each instrument to the respective section. I insert one Reverb to each bus group, which means i have 4 instances of the Convolution Reverb. For a close section i use less wetness, for distant sections i increase the wetness and roll of the high frequencies (with a separate Eq in the bus chain).
Please find an example of this method: VY Canis Majoris
I hope it helps, please let me know if you might be interested to know more about the above setup.
Best Regards 😊
Francesco
P.s. Unfortunately, i can't tell you much about predelay.
Thank You Francesco, can you make some Screenshots of the Reverbsettings ?. I like to see them
Dietz You mean a distant Sound dont need predelay but a close Sound ? I thought its the other way around.
So If I have now use 1 Instance VE with Instruments and I want the same Reverb filtered trough a different Bus with more Depth for Woodwinds, what you would change in the Reverb ?
So If I have now use 1 Instance VE with Instruments and I want the same Reverb filtered trough a different Bus with more Depth for Woodwinds, what you would change in the Reverb ?
I'm not sure that I understand the question ...? "Reverb filtered through a different Bus" ...? 8-/
Kind regards,
Dietz You mean a distant Sound dont need predelay but a close Sound ? I thought its the other way around.
Study my "reverb-image". Think that the speaker is very close at the man. Of coarse the direct sound (red) has a very short distance "to travel". Take the first reflections: If we are looking for the first reflection from a side wall then it goes on really some long ms until it will arrive as well. Second situation: Of course we always have some early reflections from the ground which will appear soon but the most of those early reflections need as least the time from the speaker to the closest walls and back...
Think the speaker far far away from the listener. The difference between the direct sound and the first early reflections will be less as farther away the sound is and also the ration direct:indirect sound will be lower as you can imagine...
This is the theory what happens in reality but with effects it also counts how it sounds... Nevertheless, using the predelay in connection with convolution reverbs is probably not the best solution. I would search for IRs which make your brass or what ever sound farther away. Take into account that the IRs have all those early and other reflections have included! So go through all the IRs of the Convolution Reverb Library. use 100% wet and you will see that some IRs let your sound appear farther away and others more closer. Larger distances not always are from those IRs which have got "large" names...
Convolution Reverb: Check out (with 100% wet) Mozartsaal Near, Graz Far wide, Schubertsaal Near, Neuer Saal Far...
Go as well through all the ER-Impulses with the Hybrid Reverb (at Edit-Page). Mute the direct Sound and "switch through" the impulses. Some of them let the sound appear really far away. If you have found one which also sound with a nice "colour" and with a nice stereo image you can nicly adjust the distance by adjusting a certain balance between the direct and the wet sound.
And as Francesco mentioned above: A possibility is to install 2-4 (Group-) channels with 2-4 different depths for routing instrument sections through the corresponding distance you want to have the sound. Normally Strings closer, Brass farther away. This procedure is - of course - not my invention... 😉
Here is a mix, done with this (close-far) procedure.
I wish you a lot of success.
Beat
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Thank You Dietz for this Information, Im now in the Testing Mode of Vienna Suite and really surprised how much this can enhance the Sound and it dosnt take much System Performance at the same Time. I wished that for MIR too, I cant even start the Demo because of the High System Requirements.
Thank You Beat, I will test the Hybrid Reverb. wow there are so many Options there and I dont have a clue what their mean ;)
I will take some Time for Theory
Cheers
Markus
[...] wow there are so many Options there and I dont have a clue what their mean ;)I will take some Time for Theory
Don't miss the video tutorials and manuals! 😊
Kind regards,
You are very welcome, Markus. I am glad you find it useful.
Please find attached a screenshot of reverb settings for the above track. As always, there is no guarantee they will work with your mix. Be aware they were used in conjunction with an Eq in each Bus Group, you will see how a bit more wetness and a bit less high frequencies will give you the instant feeling of a distant sound. The great advantage of this '4-Groups' method is that you can easily access two sections at the time (if you wish) and change the reverb+eq settings until you are happy with their distance from each other.
A dark and wet sound will also influence your headroom, this is why you might decide to get the strings closer instead of making the brass too far, as Dietz told me earlier on 'every mix is different' and each time you will find the right balance between the sections and the best compromise between depth and clarity/loudness.
As Beat said: choosing the right IR is likely to make your mix, please take the time to try them all each time you start a new mix. So many times i started mixing in Grosser Saal and then switched to Teldex or Maria Strassengel to get the sound i had in mind.
Rule of thumb: The closer the source is meant to appear near your virtual listening position, the longer (!) the pre-delay has to be between direct signal and the reverb tail, because the reflecting walls are farther away from the source.
Thank You, Maria Strassengel sounds like the biggest Reverb I ever heard, As I was testing this I had a Bass Clarinet loaded and the Levels were just here and then Booom :D ;)
My Favorite at the Moment is ORF Sendesaal, this has so nice warm Sound, but the Problem here is how to make the Woodwinds and Brass more distant and at the same Time clearsounding in Articulation as SFZ in a small Room.Setting.
So I will use the Sendesaal as my primary Reverb and make some more Tests using 3 Bus Groups or maybe 4.
I think Compression in Relation to Reverb also can make some Differences, Or ?
Cheers
Markus
You are welcome. 😊
Yes, Maria Strassengel Church is a huge reverb, you are absolutely right.
You might wish to compress an individual instrument to limit some peaks, this kind of treatment will not affect the sound of the room as you are compressing before the reverb. Compressing the reverberated sound might bring the room to your attention (depending on Comp's settings) whether you are doing it on a stem or in the mastering chain.
Best Regards
Francesco
