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  4. 1+1=?

  • 1+1=?

    matteoM
    matteoM

    With the 1+1=3 offer I'd like to buy Woodwinds I and Brass I. What should I choose for the strings, to use with my VSL SE Library?

    • Solo strings I Full?
    • Chamber strings I Full?
    • Vienna Dimensions Strings Standard?

    (I already own Appassionata Full).

    Matt
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB

    Hi Matteo

    The Solo- and the Chamberstrings Libraries:

    • + Full content means that you will be able to play music very close to a real player.
    • + You also get a huge content with the Double Bass (which you don't have with the appassionatas)
    • + Both Libraries are well completed Libraries for playing quite a lot of stiles
    • + There are no weak instruments within the libraries and they all fit very well together.
    • + Both Libries still are a good value even if they have their "ages"
    • - no divisi (therefore the Library uses less harddisk space)

    Further for the Solo Strings:

    • + The Solo strings are ideal for combining them with other Strings Libraries (unison).

     

    The Dimension Strings (Standard):

    • + The possibility of choosing a different amount of players 
    • + Divisi is possible (therefore the library uses more harddisk space)
    • + Treatments (for each player) within the Ensemble = an even more realistic ensemble sound.
    • + ideal for combining with other libraries
    • + Ensemble + Solo Strings with one Library
    • - reduced amount of articulations (because of the Standardlibrary)
    • - the sound of the "Solo-Instrument-Modus" is not as nice as the one of the pure "Solo Strings" library.

     

    Further toughts in general

    Take into account whether you plan to expand your Dimension Standard Library or not and what music you plan to play.

    Full Libries make you able to play much more closer to the reality than Standard Libraries. Take for example the articulation "diminuendo". What a big difference of the sound when a piece ends with a 4s diminuendo articulation compared to a fading out sustain by the volume controller (reducing the volume). Having détaché long (not only short as with the standard) is a huge advantage as well.

    If your decision ends between Chamber or Dimension a further point for "so or so" could be the sound. It is easier to get a more warm sound with the Chambers than with the Dimensons in my ears. Inverse: The Sound of the Dimensions has less problems to assert itself against other instruments. 

    Other musicians may see my points the other way round. So wait until others will have posted here their meanings as well.

    All the best

    Beat

    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • matteoM
    matteoM

    Thank You Beat for your detailed informations.

    I think is better to choose between Solo or Chamber Strings. Do you think is better to layer the Full Solo Strings with my other SE Strings (to enhance the sound) or to go directly to Chamber Strings Full? 

    Thank You!

    Matteo
  • P
    P

    I just bought Solo Strings I (Full) last Saturday and it was absolutely awesome!

    The Solo Strings I sounds very realistic, far better than my old SE1+. There are so many articulations for each instrument, also, the velocity layer is much more precise.

    Before making the decision, I was tempted to go for Chamber Strings I instead as the demo "Holberg Suite" sounds so real. But I figured out after searching for reviews in this forum that it was the combination between Chamber Strings + Solo Strings, not the Chamber Strings alone. Therefore, I went for the Solo Strings I and never feel regret of doing so.

    Solo Strings I Full is highly recommended!

    Regards,
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB
    last edited
    last edited

    @P.Posayanonth said:

    ...But I figured out after searching for reviews in this forum that it was the combination between Chamber Strings + Solo Strings, not the Chamber Strings alone...

    That's very true my dear. I know it because I did the demo 😉. The Holbergsuite was originally produced for demo the abilities of the vienna libraries. It replaced a version which I've done with the Orchestra-Strings. So every "trick" was asked to get a demo very close to the original for competing with other suppliers. And we did it. I've never heard a better version - until now - 10 years later 😉

     Nevertheless, the Chamber Strings and the Solo Library sound both great for themselves. As I mentioned it depends on what one like do play. A string quartet can not simulate a string ensemble and reverse is true as well. True is also, that the solo strings are nicely suitable for combining them with all ensemble libraries. The solos can add some liveliness.

    BTW: One of the first VSL-String-Demos (around 2004) was this one:
    https://www.vsl.co.at/audio/BK_Prelude_Partita_in_E_J_S_BACH.mp3 (Orchestra Strings - combined with the Solo Strings for having a more Chamber-Size Orchestra). You can find the piece here at "Bach, Johann Sebastian"...

    Beat

    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • P
    P
    last edited
    last edited

    Hi Beat,

    Thank you for your post!

    I just noticed that you were the one who made the Holberg Suite demo. It was truly amazing. I couldn't even believe that it was made 10 years ago. I think that it requires not only great samples library, but also decent programming skills to achieve that realistic sound. I hope that I could reach that level one day.

    I've listened to the Bach Prelude to Partita in E already. It sounds nice, but not so difficult to notice that it is MIDI. Some gaps between the notes have little dynamic inconsistence to my ear. Actually, It would be great if we could download the Holberg Suite tutorial file from VSL website. I have seen a few people talking about it on our forum. ;-D

    Recently, I've just done my first MIDI programming with Solo Strings. I used only the Solo Strings and MIRx Teldex in Logic Pro X. If you don't mind, please feel free to listen and/or comment. I believe that there are still a lot of "tricks" for me to learn. You can find it from my soundcloud.

    Cheers,

    Bamboo
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB
    last edited
    last edited

    @P.Posayanonth said:

    ....If you don't mind, please feel free to listen and/or comment. ....

    Bamboo

    Hi Bamboo

    Thanks for your kind words about the Holberg Suite, which was done around 2006, I believe. Mangiagalli/Bach's Partita was done around 2003/4.

    Holberg-Suite: Unfortunately I have no more documents anymore today than those which I've sent to VSL in 2006. Nobody thought at that time that the programming could be interesting once for anybody.

    So see the zip-file below. The fxp-files are useless (no more included) because DAWs can't read it nowadays. Also I do no more have the "key" about the meaning of the keyswitches within the midifile... sorry

     

    About your peace

    One thing - which shows the age of the Solo Strings Library - is that we only have 2 Layers for most of the articulations. When I listen to your piece then it seems mainly played in the "Quiet-Modus" (Layer 1).

    Try to increase the volume above 89 Midivelocity, so that those 2nd Layers are used (This advise is probably not valid for the staccato-articulation). I'm sure that the result will sound even better. The reason is that a string player in a quartet often plays louder over all than he would in an ensemble. So we are used to a more powerful (less weaker) sound with string quartets.

    I wish you a lot of fun and success with the Solos

    Beat 

    Kaufmann_Documents_Holbergsuite.zip-1696282797441-4bh4s.zip
    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • P
    P

    Hi Beat,

    Thank you very much for the .zip file (also, for your suggestion about the velocity layers). I found it very interesting. :)

    One thing that I am curious is, in the mixer.gif, there are plenty of tracks with similar names:

    - Violin 1, Violins 1, Violin 1 a

    - Violin 2, Violin 2b, Violins 2, Violins 2a. Violins 2b

    - Viola, Violas a, Violas b, Violas c

    - Celli a, Celli b,

    - Bassi

    - Vorne, Mitte?

    Are plural forms representing Chamber Strings, while the singulars represent Solo Strings, I guess? I just wonder why did you need that many layers for each section.

    I've been always thinking of layering strings as a copy&paste process. For example, you have 5 tracks of Solo Strings and you copy it to another 5 tracks of Chamber Strings. Would you mind clarifying this a bit more?

    Regards,

    Bamboo
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB
    last edited
    last edited

    @P.Posayanonth said:

    Hi Beat,

    Thank you very much for the .zip file (also, for your suggestion about the velocity layers). I found it very interesting. 😊

    One thing that I am curious is, in the mixer.gif, there are plenty of tracks with similar names:

    - Violin 1, Violins 1, Violin 1 a

    - Violin 2, Violin 2b, Violins 2, Violins 2a. Violins 2b

    - Viola, Violas a, Violas b, ...

    Hello agian

    That's why I am against such midifiles and images of personal projects. You got an answer but now you have 100 new questions. Quite honestly I believe you had a happier life before...

    First of all: The midi file and the mixer are unfortunately not prepared for students and for studying...

    The meanings of the Audio Tracks

    1.  Violin 1 = Audiotrack of the "Solo Strings" Violin
    2.  Violins 1 (a, b, c...) = Audiotrack of the Chamber Strings
    3.  Violins 1a,b,c... = Corresponding Audio tracks with summed up additions/corrections. Keep in mind that the piece needed to be optimized several times because it finally "had to be a master piece". I did it on VSL's instructions. So I had to replace some originally recorded parts until Herb and I where happy. So the additional tracks are the sums of: sectionalized new versions, played with other better articulations / individual replaced tones/articulations and so on... a,b,c are "Correction-Tracks" so to say.
    4. Celli / Bassi = Plural (Italian)
    5. Vorne = in the front = depth1 (Sum of the Solo Strings instruments) - done with GigaPulse (Convolution Reverb from Tascam (no more available) 
    6. Mitte = farther away = depth2 (Sum of the Chamber Strings) - done with GigaPulse as well

    Beat

     

    Keep in mind that with further questions the thread will drift away more and more from its original question

    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • P
    P

    I apologize for asking you too many questions. I'm also sorry for user matteo if I have ruined the original question of this thread. Anyway, thank you for your kindness and clarifications. I'll stop talking/asking about the Holberg Suite by now and let people continue discussing about Solo/Chamber/Dimension Strings.

    Regards,

    Bamboo