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  • velocity Xfade question

    Is there a way to have the same patch twice in the same matrix, one of them with velocity Xfade controlled by velocity, and the other by controller? Sometimes I need both in the same piece.


  • There is only one controller possible per instance for xFade. However, if you want to control by velocity, why don't you just switch it off?

    DG


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    Thanks, but maybe I was not clear. 

    I don't need more than one controller. I need one version of the patch which uses velocity to control the timbre as it gets louder, and another which uses a midi controller, a bit like the commen division of patches into shorts and longs, where shorts would be controlled by velocity and longs by midi cc.

    Is that clearer?

    @DG said:

    There is only one controller possible per instance for xFade. However, if you want to control by velocity, why don't you just switch it off?

    DG


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    As soon as you talk about xFade you are automatically talking about a controller. Therefore you were asking for two controllers to control xFade. Now you're not...! What I think you need is:

    1. One patch controlled by xFade
    2. One patch that uses velocity for volume and timbre. Note this is not xFade, as there is no cross-fading of layers.

    To do this you need two patches, one with xFade switched on and the other with it switched off. This is done in the Advanced tab.

    Sorry to be so pedantic, but if the nomenclature is not correct it gets very confusing and you're likely to get a less than useful answer. As I already proved, to my embarrassment. 😳

    DG


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    ... and I guess you mean to control it off with the Edit tab in the slot editor?

    @DG said:

    As soon as you talk about xFade you are automatically talking about a controller. Therefore you were asking for two controllers to control xFade. Now you're not...! What I think you need is:

    1. One patch controlled by xFade
    2. One patch that uses velocity for volume and timbre. Note this is not xFade, as there is no cross-fading of layers.

    To do this you need two patches, one with xFade switched on and the other with it switched off. This is done in the Advanced tab.

    Sorry to be so pedantic, but if the nomenclature is not correct it gets very confusing and you're likely to get a less than useful answer. As I already proved, to my embarrassment. 😳

    DG


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    I think what confused me here is that in the controller map you actually CAN assign velocity Xfade to velocity, but I see your point: there is really no FADING happening, the changes of timbre are sudden.

    Many thanks!

    @DG said:

    As soon as you talk about xFade you are automatically talking about a controller. Therefore you were asking for two controllers to control xFade. Now you're not...! What I think you need is:

    1. One patch controlled by xFade
    2. One patch that uses velocity for volume and timbre. Note this is not xFade, as there is no cross-fading of layers.

    To do this you need two patches, one with xFade switched on and the other with it switched off. This is done in the Advanced tab.

    Sorry to be so pedantic, but if the nomenclature is not correct it gets very confusing and you're likely to get a less than useful answer. As I already proved, to my embarrassment. 😳

    DG


  • Well you are right that you can assign xFade to velocity, and in this case it is xFading, but then you can't have a continuous controller for the longer notes as well. My way of working is:

    1. Sustains and legato xFade on in Advanced Tab
    2. Staccato and shorter repts xFade off in Advanced Tab
    3. Longer reps xFade Global in Advanced Tab, switched on and off by a CC (so I have a choice)

    DG


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    This is helpful, thank you. 😊

    Although I think you mean the Edit tab.

    And also, assigning xFade to velocity strictly speaking does not "Xfade", i.e. the changes of timbre are very sudden, there are no gradual transitions.

    @DG said:

    Well you are right that you can assign xFade to velocity, and in this case it is xFading, but then you can't have a continuous controller for the longer notes as well. My way of working is:

    1. Sustains and legato xFade on in Advanced Tab
    2. Staccato and shorter repts xFade off in Advanced Tab
    3. Longer reps xFade Global in Advanced Tab, switched on and off by a CC (so I have a choice)

    DG


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    @Another User said:

    And also, assigning xFade to velocity strictly speaking does not "Xfade", i.e. the changes of timbre are very sudden, there are no gradual transitions.

    Hmm. There should be. Try it with a solo violin around velocity 70, and you should hear both layers at the same time. Now try it at velocity 70 with xFade switched off. You should only hear one layer.


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    I'll try it out.

    It's odd, because many times I have been frustrated by the fact that patches will change sound so drastically at around velocity 89-90. I even posted here once about that, especially with brass patches.

     

     

    @Another User said:

    And also, assigning xFade to velocity strictly speaking does not "Xfade", i.e. the changes of timbre are very sudden, there are no gradual transitions.

    Hmm. There should be. Try it with a solo violin around velocity 70, and you should hear both layers at the same time. Now try it at velocity 70 with xFade switched off. You should only hear one layer.


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    @belkina said:

    I'll try it out.

    It's odd, because many times I have been frustrated by the fact that patches will change sound so drastically at around velocity 89-90. I even posted here once about that, especially with brass patches.

     

     

    That's when you have to use the expression fader to try and smooth it out.  It's not perfect and it takes some practice to do it on the fly.  Usually, you have to go back and manually edit the expression and Xfade to get a seamless run.


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    If the xfade is switched on and off in the advanced tab for all my patches, should it still be switched on in the slider of the basic view for velocity xfade?  Even if they are switched on or off, it still seems they are affected by changes I make in CC2 

    @DG said:

    Well you are right that you can assign xFade to velocity, and in this case it is xFading, but then you can't have a continuous controller for the longer notes as well. My way of working is:

    1. Sustains and legato xFade on in Advanced Tab
    2. Staccato and shorter repts xFade off in Advanced Tab
    3. Longer reps xFade Global in Advanced Tab, switched on and off by a CC (so I have a choice)

    DG

    [/quote]


  • Unless the setting in the advanced tab is set to Global, switching it on and off makes no difference at all.

    DG


  • PLEASE tell me where this is....I can't figure out how to do this - have one leg patch with NO X-fade and one with.

    DG said:

    "To do this you need two patches, one with xFade switched on and the other with it switched off. This is done in the Advanced tab."

     

    Where in the Advanced Tab?

     

    Thank you!


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    @Scott Munson Music said:

    PLEASE tell me where this is....I can't figure out how to do this - have one leg patch with NO X-fade and one with.

    VI or VI Pro?

    DG


  • Pro.

     

    Thank you!


  • Click Advanced (top right) and then the Edit TAB.

    DG


  • Ah!

    Brilliant!

    Thank you!


  • I must have something set up wrong then.  I have my detache & staccato patches set to velocity x-fade off in the advance/edit tab.  I have my long notes set to on and my fp/sfz's set to global in case I would like to add a crescendo by drawing in the velocity x-fade.  I am assuming this means that any line I draw in my CC that controls velocity x-fade should not affect those particular notes that have the velocity x-fade off. However, it DOES seem to still affect them both when the main velocity x-fade fader is switched on and off.

    All I am trying to do is have total control over the velocities of my notes and as soon as I draw in a x-fade curve to make a crescendo the lines I draw affect the volumes for all the notes after.

    Sorry if this sounds confusing - I'm having some trouble wrapping my brain around this and it seems like something that shouldn't seem this hard to figure out.

    Becky (the other half of Acclarion) 

    EDIT: ok, never mind. I did have something wrong: even though I my expression CC was not assigned in my basic view fader, in the advance menu under control map it was still set to the same controller as my velocity x-fade and that was what was messing up my dynamics.  Now the detache/staccato patches I had switched to off are acting the way they should.  I won't delete this post though in case any else makes the same silly mistake.


  • It works here and has done for years, so there is something else going on. It sounds to me as if you have an errant controller attached to CC11 or CC7, so that when you use xFade those controllers move as well.

    Without seeing your Preset, I can't really tell. Perhaps if you upload the Preset I can try it out for you.

    DG