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  4. Creating Larger Woodwind Ensembles

  • Creating Larger Woodwind Ensembles

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    I would like to create larger clarinet ensembles for a concert band piece I writing.  I would like to write for 6 clarinets instead of three.  Should I increase the volume in the mixer or should I add another clarinet a3 articulation to the next slot in the advanced tab and leave the volume alone?

    Thanks

    Aric
  • W
    W

    I also wanted to do this same thing for concert band.  Since it is normal to have around at least nine clarinets in a concert band, some doublings must be used.  What I did on my Concert March which is scored for full symphonic band -

    http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/williamkersten6

    is to use the clarinet ensemble, the solo clarinet and then do a transposition/pitch shift on a copied track for each to double them.  I also scored for the high E flat Clarinet,  Alto Clarinet and Bass Clarinet as is usual in band writing.  This makes a fairly large clarinet ensemble sound, though I would like to add the 2nd clarinet (which I don't yet have but looks very enticing), and perhaps double it as well.  This way one could have ten B flat clarinets with no phasing. 
  • N
    N

    Thanks WIlliam, this helps quite a bit.  Everything makes sense except why and how to do a "tranposition/pitch" shift.  Also, to make sure I understand correctly, if I wanted 6 players the first clarinet on a part I would copy the 1st clarinet track then assign clarinets a3 to both?

    Aric
  • W
    W

    You would do that but you also need to transpose the notes up a half step, and then do a pitch shift with a controller at the beginning of the track so the entire part sounds down a half step (back to the correct pitches).  This way all the notes are different samples and there will be no phasing.  If you simply play the notes twice they will phase.  Another thing to do is to apply different humanize settings to each track either in your sequencer, in VE or in both.
  • N
    N

    This is very interesting. So if transposing a note by half step, and then doing a pitch shift, the pitch shift applies to the transposed notes, hence different sample, if I understand correctly?
  • W
    W

    Yes that's right, and effectively you get a second instrument/ensemble with no duplicated samples.  Also, I've found that pitch shifting down, and transposing up, is better than the reverse, because lowering the recording frequency sounds a tiny bit mellower (whereas pitch shifting up sounds a little bit more shrill), and vibrato if present is slowed a little, and that usually sounds better than speeding it up. 
  • N
    N

    Nice idea William, Thanks!  The mix already sounds much better.  Do you write lots of concert band pieces?  I ask because that's the ensemble I usually write for.  I'm always looking other ways to use VSL orchestral sounds to create concert band/wind ensemble mixes.  If you have any other methods that you would like to share I'd really appreciate it.

    Aric
  • W
    W

    Yes I wrote music for concert band because I was a horn player in various bands, and really love the concert band sound.  That march I mentioned was actually a lot more emphasis on brass and percussion than woodwinds, but I did a symphony for band that has more woodwind parts.  I adapted it in the "Chivalry" music I did with VSL, but I want to do another mix that uses the original band scores.  I think the symphonic band is a very powerful ensemble, and love to hear a good one in concert.  There is a rich, massive sonority that comes from the large number of woodwinds and brass that no orchestra can ever match.  My favorite concert band composition is probably Vaclav Nelhybel's Trittico. He is a great composer who is not recognized enough for his truly artistic works for concert band.  He used the particular groupings of woodwinds, brass and percussion perhaps better than any other composer.  And no symphony orchestra can ever match the raw power of brass and percussion he created in his works. 

    Anyway, the only other examples of "tricks" involving using the instruments are to use doublings if you wish.  Though with VSL you have two separate flutes, the entire sax ensemble, and bassoon ensemble.  So you could do some more similar doublings to get more flutes (using the flute ensemble or doubled solo flutes -  a common event in various bands) and the other instruments including bassett horn for e flat clarinet, the bass clarinet and also contra bass clarinet, and with the doublings mentioned an entire concert band woodwind ensemble can be created.  I added the contrabassoon even though it is not a normal member of symphonic band because I like that extra extreme bass in the woodwinds.  Also, occasionally you will encounter works for concert band that specify contrabassoon.
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    Thanks for the tips!  I'm a concert trumpet player who also as played in a number of groups ranging from wind ensembles to drum and bugle corps.  Hearing a high quaility concert band playing high quality literature is truley an inspiring experience.  By the way, Trittico is one of my favorates as well! 

    Cheers,

    Aric