Hi all,
I'm new to VSL, but have been composing orchestral/chamber music with entry level libraries like Garritan for a while and am ready to make the leap to VSL (thinking of starting with the Cube standard library, although I've considered the Special Editions too).
I would appreciate some insight from experienced individuals with regard to the following:
1) When composing concert music, I always score in Finale, add dynamics, articulation markings, tempi, etc. and export the human playback file to Cubase for some EQing before using Ozone to "master" (although, admitedly, I'm only tweaking presets as I'm no mastering engineer). Results have been ok, but obviously, I'm not able to create the "ebb and flow" with rubato, and other things as Finale generally plows through everything (save for some rits and accels). So, in light of this, I've contemplated playing in completed parts into cubase , as I'm a pretty advanced pianist. However, for extremely complex orchestral scores, the thought of recording in 25 plus parts, and ensuring everything is quantized/balanced, etc. seems insanely unrealistic, especially for 20 plus minute works. I've been able to record a 4 minute brass quintet with reasonable results, but even then, the number of hours tweaking the parts is overwhelming, compared to simply having finale play back the score. What do you do with regard to getting a good performance for larger chamber/orchestral works?
2) As I'm considering starting with the standard libraries, I'm a little confused by things like "arpeggiated runs, trills in thirds," etc. in a clarinet library for example. As a pianist, I would play in a trill myself using say a legato/sustain patch. Are these extra "patches" there for those that would not be able to convincingly play arpeggiated runs or trills quickly/smoothly? Are these patches similar to some of the automatic arpeggiator patches in Kontakt's libraries where you just push one key and it plays a pattern? If that's the case, then how would I utilize them if I real time play in a part in cubase and reach a trill that I'm normally used to playing myself? Hope this makes sense!
3) Finally, whether through entering all the appropriate articulations in finale and exporting the midi file to cubase, or through directly playing in a part in cubase, do VSL libraries/the VSL instrument player, "recognize" different touches/articulations and automatically switch the articulation patch, or do i have to continue entering keyswitches which gets very tedious/time consuming? I know not all articulations could be reflected by how I play a keyboard (especially in light of the number of them for certain instruments like strings) but, a few basic changes would be helpful, such as staccatos, legatos, automatically being recognized by the way I play the passage. Is this wishful thinking?
To tie this all together, here is an example of an orchestral piece I've completed in Finale using the garritan sounds. I did the best I could with my limited programming skills and tools, but really want to upgrade the quality of the final audio product and would like some reassurance that using the Symphonic Cube instruments will improve the end result of this piece.
https://soundcloud.com/carovillano/fantasia-for-orchestra
Thank you so much if you can take a few minutes to help me with the questions above!
David Carovillano
www.acclarion.ca - classical accordion and clarinet duo
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Articulations, workflow, and other newbie questions
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If your budget will allow buy full libraries not standards. If you can't afford the Cube extended libraries then just concentrate on getting the most complete string library, or winds or whatever and build your way to the other instruments later. VSL offers monthly sales, specials, discounts, etc.
Personally, I only use notation software when I need a written score of my work and even then it's just a piano arrangement. Then I export the MIDI to my DAW and work with it in more detail there. Maybe people who work exclusively with notation software can chime in.
When you say, " the thought of recording in 25 plus parts, and ensuring everything is quantized/balanced, etc. seems insanely unrealistic, especially for 20 plus minute works." Quantizing is actually quite simple in DAWS but I rarely ever use it for orchestrated works as it makes the performance sound wooden, unless you are programming hard and fast tempo changes. This is the problem with working with notation software and trying to create a natural sounding orchestration.
Like your piano, VSL is an instrument that has to be masterd in order to gain the best results. The learning curve probably isn't as steep as it is with piano but it takes time. Once you master the instrument and understand how each articulation works (never let the score dictate your choice of articulations by the way) then there really isn't that much tweaking to do. The way you save time in this game is by not re-inventing the wheel all the time. Create and save orchestral templates where the keyswitches stay constant throughout.
Acclarion
"As a pianist, I would play in a trill myself using say a legato/sustain patch. Are these extra "patches" there for those that would not be able to convincingly play arpeggiated runs or trills quickly/smoothly?
Unless your playing a sampled piano like the Bosendorfer you're not going to play convincing trills, glissandos, pfp's, in a wind library for example, by playing with nondynamic samples. Therefore, dedicated samples were recorded to cover dynamic performances. In the regular Vienna player, the Arpeggio samples just play the notes of a chord once. Up or down, they are not continuous for the reason I described above. However, in VI Pro I think you can create one note arppegios. Although I have VI PRO I like to create my own arpeggiated patterns.
Acclarion
"whether through entering all the appropriate articulations in finale and exporting the midi file to cubase, or through directly playing in a part in cubase, do VSL libraries/the VSL instrument player, "recognize" different touches/articulations and automatically switch the articulation patch, or do i have to continue entering keyswitches which gets very tedious/time consuming?"
VSL used to have a speed matrix which was useful if you just wanted to create a simple legato line without all the tedious keyswitches but I stopped using it because I just prefer to program tedious keyswitching which makes the piece sound more natural. I think they still have that matrix along with others that are algorythmic so to say
Basically, you get out of VSL what you put in it. If you want fast mock ups where realism isn't an issue VSL can certainly handle that but if you want natural sounding works, the more time you put into it the more natural it will sound.
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Just a word to say that those pre-programmed scales and arpeggios are not only for people who can't play the piano, but also for a lot of film and game music people who compose their music starting from little fragments like that. As a symphonist myself, I never use them (in fact I wish I could buy the libraries cheaper, without them), but that is the main reason they are there.
As for the rest, big sample libraries like VSL require spending time to get to know what you have. If you buy, say, Dimension strings, you will not use all of it right away. VSL libraries have lots of depth, which also means that to really use them fully requires spending time just playing with them, listening, trying things out. Think of it like an instrument which is very powerful, but not easy to play. The more you put in, the more you will get out. :-)
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Thanks to both of you for your helpful information. I can appreciate that there will need to be a significant amount of time and effort needed to realize the potential of the libraries. Sadly, I won't be able to get the full cube libraries for a while and will have to consider your suggestion about starting with a complete string library vs the cube standard...really thinking the cube will still be the way to go as I want to have the whole orchestra at once, even if the articulations are limited...would the cube standard still be an improvement over the special edition complete library with plus expansion packs? David Carovillano www.acclarion.ca - classical accordion and clarinet duo
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That's a good point, Alan, although one thing I'm concerned with when it comes to the special edition vs full instruments, is the number of velocity layers. I have the Kontakt 9 library, and the VSL library in there (which I've been told is a scaled down version of the special edition) has some serious limitations with velocity layers, especially in the brass. I've played in lines where the sound changes between softer and louder dynamics is more jarring than I'd like. It seems they are limited to only a couple of samples where I'd like a few more gradations of tone. I'm assuming that the cube versions would provide this? David Carovillano www.acclarion.ca - classical accordion and clarinet duo
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VSL keyswitches are 'latching', meaning that the keyswitch = true until further notice. I have Cubase set to return the cursor to start position on stop.
3) do i have to continue entering keyswitches which gets very tedious/time consuming?
