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  • How is this deep string sound created?

    Hello! When I scrounge through the creations of Audiomachine/Two Steps From Hell,
    I sometimes encounter this deep, rich string sound. I've been googling a bit but I haven't found
    a thread or the likes on how to reproduce this sound, if even possible, in an unprofessional setting.

    For instance in the first seconds of Audiomachine's Tree of life - https://soundcloud.com/themostepicmusic/tree-of-life there is this beautiful, rich string sound which makes me drool whenever I hear it.

    In Two Steps From Hell's Nero - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LtnLVRvypw, about 20 seconds in, you can also hear a deep, ''earth-shattering'' string sound if you would.

    How are these kind of sounds created? Can they be reproduced in an unprofessional setting?

    Right now I use the special edition 1 from VSL and Altiverb as convolution reverb but the sound I get when using the included string sounds, while rich in its own way, doesn't have quite the same oomph if you will.

    So yeah.. How create oomphy string sounds?

    Thanks alot :)


  • Those are synths layered in. It's not really hard to do.

    In the first track, there is simply a synthesized low sound that plays along with the double basses. It could be a pure synth sound, perhaps a saw or square pad with generous LP filter settings, or it could be a hybrid patch where actual string recordings have been processed and blended with a synthetic sound. It just has to be a rich, wide, but subtle sound that blends in with the natural string sound without standing out.

    It's not very hard to make something like that with any decent subtractive synth. A lot of instruments have several preset patches that can be used for that kind of purpose, or can be easily tweaked in the right direction.

    The very low subtle impact in the second track can be achieved by making a "sub bass" synth patch using a sine wave. That kind of thing is very commonly used in this kind of hybrid orchestral music, and also in cinema sound design, to apply that impressive effect of underlying earth-shattering energy.

    You just need to be careful to only blend in these synthetic enhancements, subtly, and not overpower the sound of the "naturalistic" samples with it.


  • Thank you very much for the detailed explanation! I experimented with adding some Cello, Violin and Viola samples as chords and then amplified those chords, as you suggested, by adding the Analog Pad sound, native to logic pro, to my track. Additionally I layered it with ''Trombone Ensemble'' from VSL. I also cut off some of the higher frequencies from the strings as to emphasize that warmth I was looking for.

    I'm very happy with the result, I've been able to create a sound quite similar to the one found in Tree of Life.
    I never thought it would be so easy to do, considering it sounds so good and I will defenitely be making vigorous use of this technique!


  • Great to hear!


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    @Joesson said:

    ...So yeah.. How create oomphy string sounds?

    Thanks alot 😊

    Hello Joesson

    Here is another possibility - just with samples:

    1. If you have more than one Strings-Library then comine them = a thicker sound.
    2. Reduce massively the high frequencies - let's say above 2-4Hz (dark sound means for our brain = big and far)
    3. Use a reverb which supports this sound

    As an example an excerpt of Rheinberger's "Abendlied" played (simulated) in a cathedral... I used Appassionatas + Chambers + Solos (2 Violins, 2 Violas 2 Cellos)

    OK, maybe all is a bit overdone, specially the cathedral... 😉 Nevertheless, have fun

    Beat


    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • Hello Beat, Sorry for the late reply!

    Right now I only have one strings library unfortunately but that's defenitely something I will try out!
    Yes, I have also found out that reducing high frequencies can make for a warmer, less sharp sound.

    Nice excerpt! Yeah, I agree that the reverb may be a little overwhelming lol. 
    Nevertheless I see what you mean in that layering different strings can create a lusher sound. :)

    If you're interested, here is some music of my own: https://soundcloud.com/johannes-carlsson-2

    I recommend Doomsday Carnival.

    Thanks!

    Johannes


  •  

    This is the kind of sound I am also striving to achieve... Thank you JimmyHellfire and Beat. Managed to learn some new things reading this thread.


  • Btw, I always wondered, why does layering a sine wave (sub bass) do a better job for this type of sound, compared to if I boosted the sub bass frequencies of my double bass with an eq for example (and no sine wave is used)?


  • When layering in a synth sub bass, often a sine wave is used because it's the most basic and purest wave form. It's the root of all sound, a digital creation that doesn't occure like that in "real nature".

    It's exactly the frequency we want to make stronger (and not a certain area with a certain slope, like an EQ), with nothing else in there that would make the sound distinct - no erratic dynamic changes, no harmonics, etc. We don't want to actually make the double basses sound like something else, we're just empowering the fundamentals. The sine wave is just droning underneath, with no distinct character of its own, nothing that gives its presence away immediately. It's basically adding something that is hard to locate and single out, but at the same time, cannot be unheard.

    That way, it blends with the basses perfectly, and the result is a kind of a supernatural Double Bass. Because the digital sine wave it's a perfectly even, artificial sound, it fastens the overall sound and makes it firm and sleek. It evens out the evolving and ever-changing sound of bowed strings. Almost like a compression effect, but without compromizing the dynamics of our "real" basses in any way.

    This of course has the effect hat the basses assume a more even, cold, monolithic and "modern" artificial sound. Which can be great for hybrid and electronic-infused music, but terrible for an impression of a "natural" orchestra, and in this case, thickening the basses with the method that Beat suggested (layering in basses of another library) works much better.

    Layering has a different effect than simply pushing frequencies with the EQ, because by doing so, you would be "selectively turning the volume up". You would be shifting the spectral balance of something that's already there. But actually adding another voice into the mix obviously makes the whole arrangement bigger. We're not just turning up, we're adding something more.

    The effect of increasing size and thickness isn't just because of volume. It comes from the subtle differences in pitch, tone and dynamics. There's a certain friction and rub between the two similar sound sources that our hearing interprets as wider, thicker, more complex and powerful. They both play the same note, but there's always little things in there that clash and rub and create a texture that wouldn't be achievable by just one voice alone, and that somehow is pleasing to our ears.

    It's an effect that occurs and is used in music all the time and in several ways. For example, when you listen to brass sections: a certain part of their power and vigor comes from the subtle variances in how the single players hit their target pitch.

    That's also the reason why we double- or quad-track guitars for a "wall ouf sound" in pop and rock productions. Using the same recording twice would sound like one track, but turned up louder. Just EQing the track would sound like - a filtered recording. By actually having the player record their parts 2 or 4 times and panning the tracks differently produces this thick, wonderfully juicy satisfying sound, because no matter how accomplished the player - every take will sound ever so slightly different and that's exactly the magic we're after.

    That's also the reason why chorus effect units "thicken up" guitar or synth sounds - they create a copy of the signal that is mixed to the original, detuned and delayed slightly.


  • Wow, thanks so much JimmyHellfire! Your explaining is truly educational!

    You are absolutely right, when I tried boosting the low end frequencies of my double bass, it did sound a bit unatural (I would hear bumps in sound here and there). It didn't sound as pleasing to my ears.

    So probably a sine wave is what I need. 

    When adding one, should I cut the low frequencies of the double bass starting at below 30hz? And which frequencies should I cut from the sine wave? Above 120hz maybe?


  • If it's a pure sine wave, you don't have to EQ anything. There are no overtones you could filter out.

    I also probably wouldn't highpass the actual basses. If the overall sound is too boomy, take the sine wave back a little more. You could of course always try and listen if the high pass does the sound any good, but the VSL samples are generally very clean, so there isn't really anything problematic to be tamed. I might highpass the summed mixdown a bit, but single tracks - rarely.

    For basses, I find other frequencies more interesting for applying EQ. Like Beat said, the top end can be reduced to make the basses sound darker without actually boosting anything. And one could try and scoop the low mids, like  somewhere between 200-250Hz, sometimes also 400-500, which can make the basses sound tighter, more transparent and a bit more "Hi-Fi".


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    Thank you Jimmy. Will give it a shot.

    I actually have a hardware synth (Virus TI), so will try and get a sine wav out of it. 😊

    I will experiement with both approaches (layering and sine wave), as I own all of the string libraries, and see how they each sound.


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    Boy, that sine wave sure made my room rumble! 😐 At times felt like an earthquake... lol

    Anyway, I reduced it dramatically and it sounds awesome!

    One thing I noticed though, when playing the sine wave, some notes rumble more than others -- to the point some go almost silent. On the other hand, when played with the double bass, the energy sounds more even.


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    @nektarios said:

    [...]One thing I noticed though, when playing the sine wave, some notes rumble more than others -- to the point some go almost silent. On the other hand, when played with the double bass, the energy sounds more even.

    This sounds like you have some issues with the frequency response of your monitor system and/or your control room. Ideally, the sine wave will have the same volume at all frequencies (which is hardly to achieve in the real world).


    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Thank you Dietz,

    I guess my studio room needs to be "fixed", and maybe my subwoofer isn't able to reproduce the lower frequencies. For instance, A1 rumbles, but D1 does not (but sounds weak).

    According to my subwoofer specs, I have:

    Frequency response
    27Hz-180Hz (+/-1.5dB)

    Sensitivity
    88dB SPL (1w@1m)

    Crossover frequency
    50Hz - 130Hz


  • My audio engineer friend told me that my room is resonating at A1 (110Hz), which needs to be treated.


  • PaulP Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on