Velocity layers in SE patches

[Mikecomp]

Hello,

I have the Special Edition Brass 1 and 2 and was curious about the amount of velocity layers compared to the full version.  I notided in the C trumpet (SE Brass 1), there are 3 layers for the sustained patch.  All three sound great, but there seems to be a big jump in timber from the second loudest, to the loudest layer.  It seems to be especailly noticable on the C trumpet sustained patch - the others patches within the C trumpet and the other brasses (horn, trombone etc.) have a smoother transition to the top velocity.  I do have the velocity crossfade on and use a breath controller - but it still seems like there is still a very sudden jump between these layers on this patch.  Do the full versions of these instruments have more velocity layers?  Perhaps I need the full version of the C or possibly the Bb trumpet to get the smoother contrast between layers.  

I am new to the VSL instrumets and am extremely pleased with the quality of this library - thanks in advance for any help to my question.

 

Mike

[vincent TuT]

Hi Mikecomp, I was wandering the same things. All patch are great excepte the C trumpet that sound very synth on higher velocity. Even there is a lot of posts about that particular problem in the forum it's very hard to find clear informations.

After spending so much money on SE 1 ad 2 I felt a bit betrayed by my dear VSL. How can they leave that samples without removing that buzz ? Is it to make us buy Brass I ? I was thinking moving from vsl for the brass but...

But before you buy anything just try to use a low pass filter around 5K or 6K Hz. It remove the buzz but not the brightness of the trompet. Realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, realy, magic !!!! 😮

I use the free plugin blue cat's triple EQ directly as an insert vst in vienna ensemble (not pro).

Hope that help!!!

[Beat Kaufmann]

@Mikecomp said:

...thanks in advance for any help to my question.

Hello Mike

My answer does not solve your problem. The full libraries contain more articulations and they are available in halftone steps but you have the same layers with the same "big jumps". Some articulations come with 4 layers (staccatos I believe) and others just with 2 or 3.

One fact you better accept as soon as possible: Making music with samples means in the mean time: "making compromises". The best situation you have when you can write the music for the sample content. A serious situation you have when you should play music (a mockup for example) who everbody knows played with real musicians/orchestras. Then you often need tricks as you got one from vincentTuT.

I trick I use: Sometimes I change single articulations between different libraries. So I mix articulations between the piccolo trumpet, the C-trumpet and others as long the sound fits to the mainly used library. Unfortunately you only can use yourself when you own other trumpet libries as well.

Listen to my Haydn. I had the same problems as you obviously seem to have... 2 so different sounding layers with a trumpet are really not enough. So you will nicely make out my decisions.

Remark: Please don't listen to my "cadence". I thought 2007 to do it once the right way but I unfortunately never did it...).

All the best

Beat

[Mikecomp]

To Vince and Beat,

Thank you very much for the answers to my questions as well as the tips you have provided.  Since most of my work is creating mockups, I am quickly realizing little tricks here and there to make the library work for my given situation. 

Vince - the tip on the filter is much appreicated.  Recently, I had the need for a soloistic tenor saxophone part, and the three velocity layers in the SE offered too broad of a contrast to use an expression controller form one to the other.  What I ended up doing was choosing the middle velocity layer - (setting velocity crossfade to 64 permanently for that patch) and then using the filter and expression in conjunction to get dynamic and timber changes within that one layer.  The expression alone, without the filter, does not offer the natural changes in timber, that a real instrument would display and the dynamics are changed, but pairing it with the filter made it much more convincing.

I almost view the three layers in the SE tenor sax patch as three different instruments and the extreme crossfade from the softest to loudest layer seems as though would be a rather rare occurence.  Perhaps working acorss two of the layers might be more common, but in my current project, working within one has given me good results.

Beat - I was very inpressed with the concerto - you did an excellent job capturing the nuance that live player would have had.  I also appreciate the files you shared.

Thank you both for sharing your knowledge and time - I am enjoying using the library very much and find learing things on this forum to be very helpul.

Mike

[J.Hall]

I want to point out that Vienna Instruments has a built in filter which can be used to "tame" the SE brass. The Dimension Brass is better in this regard but they are mostly made for ensemble passages and not so much solos (though it works for that most of the time). Using MIRx (or MIR PRO, I suppose) also helps making the brass (and everything) sound better since in my experience brass is the hardest group to mix realistically. The legato patches doesn't have that harshness either and I use that when doing quick mockups. I bought the full triple horn and it has more layers on sustains and while the loudest dynamic is still the same harsh one, you get more flexibility from the others. I assume the trumpet is somewhat the same (don't have it yet).