Thank you for the convincing examples.

Granted that post-production MIDI processing is necessary, I am trying to understand what is missing in the playback and VI interaction that makes this performance shaping necessary.

For instance the 'Paganini b' version sounds less convincing than the 'a' version (which is almost as good as a real performance btw). It seems that there are artifical delays between the notes in 'b', almost as if a slow processor, or hard drive and poor latency is the reason. Is this because VI cannot respond fast enough to the articulation changes?

If this piece was notated in Sibelius and all articulations and dynamics were placed properly, and the computer was fast enough, I am not sure why it would sound like the 'b'. It may not be as good as 'a' but still, shouldnt we be closer to 'a' than 'b' with an 'out of the box' rendering and proper notation? 

sorry to be a pain, or if my question doesnt make sense. I am not disagreeing that more performance shaping is necessary, but I am trying to understand why VI cannot handle this automatically. Of course, one could say that shaping allows one to change the expressions according to what is desired, but the example 'b' is not ready for that.

From my little experience with VI it does an amazing job with Sibelius and gets me 90% of the way (to my ear at least). I will need to learn further about performance shaping to fix the remaining 10%. The example 'b' above is not yet 90% in my opinion and thats why I was trying to clarify....

Thank you

@agitato said:

[...] I am trying to understand why VI cannot handle this automatically. [...]

"The score is not the music."

😊

Hi guys!

Sry to hop in without having read everyone and listened to anything, but I think there's one really important thing to keep in mind with Mir Pro. I know it has already been said, but it's tremendously important. Mir Pro doesn't give rooms in which you can put your instruments as if you were there. It gives you rooms in which you can RECORD them. And that's a huge different.

Because you can certainly mess up a recording session in any hall and make a violin sound ugly :p

In other words, one must really try to think as a sound engineer (even though, of course, we're not) and try to have an intelligent setting with the microphone(s), the microphones/instruments placement, the microphones/instruments' directions... OF course, since you begin with a pure, raw and dry sound that an recording engineer never have, the balancing isn't quite the same, but I believe it's the same type of work.

Also, don't forget the Room EQ. It tends to be overlooked, but VSL provides you "already baked" EQs in your user area for all of their rooms, and they can do a marvelous job at reducing the "frequencies eccentricities" of certain halls ^^ And it's not some sort of tip for virtual rooms. If i'm not wrong, it's actually done as well with real rooms, even though, of course, one cannot separate the rev from the dry sound like we do in Mir Pro.

@Another User said:

[...] If i'm not wrong, it's actually done as well with real rooms, even though, of course, one cannot separate the rev from the dry sound like we do in Mir Pro.

Yes and no. 😊 In case of a real recording, you would have a main microphone array and spot microphones, which will be treated differently. That's the way us sound engineers usually approach a modern orchestra recording session, and you will find the same basic idea implemented in MIR Pro (although with certain adaptions according to the possibilities of the virtual world).

Best,

Sidenote to the original poster: Can we change this thread's title now to something more appealing ...? ;-) Many thanks in advance!

@Plougot said:

[...] If i'm not wrong, it's actually done as well with real rooms, even though, of course, one cannot separate the rev from the dry sound like we do in Mir Pro.

Yes and no. 😊 In case of a real recording, you would have a main microphone array and spot microphones, which will be treated differently.

I was actually referring to the Room EQ, correcting the way halls react, though I was not sure. Sorry if I was not clear, I'm not a native english speaker. Anyway, what I can say on the matter is of little interest since I'm no professional sound engineer like you.

One small question I had, which is I think still kind of related to the subject : I believe the Mir Pro rooms were recorded empty. Can it change the way the sound react in the halls ? I mean, I imagine all those warm bodies^^ would absorb some of the sound and make it bounce in a less predictable way. Would it be something with a big impact on the final hall sound ?

@Another User said:

One small question I had, which is I think still kind of related to the subject : I believe the Mir Pro rooms were recorded empty. Can it change the way the sound react in the halls ? I mean, I imagine all those warm bodies^^ would absorb some of the sound and make it bounce in a less predictable way. Would it be something with a big impact on the final hall sound ?

Almost everything has an impact on sound - it's just a matter of magnitude whether we are able to perceive a change or not. And even _if_ we can hear a change, the question remains what's "better", what's "worse" - or what's just different. 😊

Most good concert halls on this planet have taken measures to avoid severe changes of the overall acoustics with or without audience. You can see simple provisions like upholstery on the lower surface of the folding seats typically found in conert halls up to sophisticated tools like moveable wall coverings. After all, conert halls are used empty as often as full with people: For rehearsals, recordings, and so on.

That said, it was funny to realize during MIR's development that for almost every venue we recorded in, we found at very knowledgeable locals who were convinced that the empty hall was actually better sounding. Go figure ... 😊

But in the end, in case of MIR Pro the discussion is futile anyway, as we can't have several hundred people sitting quietly in a hall while listening to loud sine-sweeps for 24 hours or more. ;-D

Kind regards,

@Another User said:

But in the end, in case of MIR Pro the discussion is futile anyway, as we can't have several hundred people sitting quietly in a hall while listening to loud sine-sweeps for 24 hours or more. ;-D

You could make fake bodies like the ones in the mythbuster's show and put several hundred of them in each concert hall you record. Sounds like a both reasonable and cost efficient way to discover it has not significant impact on the sound.^^

@Dietz said:

Sidenote to the original poster: Can we change this thread's title now to something more appealing ...? 😉 Many thanks in advance!

I changed it...hope this is better.

Thanks! Very kind of you. I really appreciate that!