I came across an confusing issue in VEPro5. I wonder if anyone else has the same issue.
I am using VEPro5 (current version) on a Macmini Slave, and Logic Pro 9 on a Mac desktop. They communicate well together. No issues on that front. The issue is the preservation of names of projects in a metaframe in VEPRo5
When I set up a metaframe in VEPro5 (say called "Orchestra"), I then create projects in the metaframe. Let's say there are 3 projects - "Strings", "Brass", and "Woodwinds".
Each project has a number of channels, with different instruments (say in strings, there are 8 channels - violin, violin chamber, viola, viola chamber, cello, cello chamber, double bass, double bass chamber).
I save each project, and save the meta frame. I also save the arrangement in Logic. So far all is good. I can reopen the metaframe, or (since it is preserved and I have saved the Logic arrangement), I can open the Logic arrangement and the metaframe will open automatically, provided that VEPro is running).
Here comes the issue.
If I make changes to one or more of the projects, and save it as a new project (say "Strings r1", "Brass r1" and "Woodwinds r1"). I then save the metaframe as a new name (say "Orchestra r1"). The name of each project shows properly (on the top of the project it will say "Strings r1" etc. and in the metaframe it will show as "Strings r1" etc. Of course, I also save the arrangement in Logic. All instances are preserved
However, when I close VEPro and reopen the new metaframe, or merely close the metaframe, and then reopen the new metaframe (Orchestra r1) or open the Logic arrangement while the correct metaframe (Orchestra r1) opens, it does not show the correct project names. They have the old project names. However, the correct projects are loaded (i.e. the "Strings r1" is loaded, but it still says merely "Strings").
At first I thought that the software was opening the wrong projects, but I have ascertained with careful testing that the correct metaframe and projects are opening. It is just the name of the projects that is wrong.
I spent some time this morning on the phone with Eric from Ilio, who confirmed my result, but did not have an explanation for this behaviour.
I wonder, is this a bug, or is there some reason for this. It is quite confusing, as there is really no way to tell which projects are opened by the metaframe if the names in the metaframe and the projects don't match the names of the actual saved projects.
I would be interested in anyone else' experience on this.
Many thanks
Steven
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VEPro doesn't preserve names of projects?
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The instance name, in the metaframe, is not the project or viframe name. The name of the viframe does not affect the other name.
I would not want that name change to be a name change at the other level.* That is probably going to be true of others; and I would think this as an abstraction was taken under advisement during development.*: as seen in the host VE Pro is connected to. I simply name instances in metaframes by the slot number they connect to in Cubase. '1' means, in every case, 'Percussion'. So I'm looking for that. I keep up with specifics of the viframes separately as I decouple and save every change at both levels on the VE Pro end.
So if you want both to be the same name, you can do such as rename the instance [in the server window] in Cubase or what-have-you, then save the metaframe.
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Thanks for the reply.
Next time you open the song in cubase, the metaframe will open with those numbered vframes.
Here's the question. If you have a number of metaframe templates, each one with just numbers, you are relying on your saving of the metaframe and vframes to ensure you get the right vframes opened. If you forget to save a vframe (say number 2 (strings) in template number (say 4), you may get the wrong vframe, and not perhaps realize it until you are deep into your arrangment (assuming the differences between the two are subtle).
It still seems a bit confusing to me. I would prefer the metaframe to show the names of the actual vframes as per the saved vframe names (which is does until I close VEPro and then reopen it - even though the metaframe does open the correct vframes), but perhaps I am conceiving of it in a different way.
Steven
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I don't need to check for that especially, as the numbers always mean a certain part of the arrangement.Here's the question. If you have a number of metaframe templates, each one with just numbers, you are relying on your saving of the metaframe and vframes to ensure you get the right vframes opened. If you forget to save a vframe (say number 2 (strings) in template number (say 4), you may get the wrong vframe, and not perhaps realize it until you are deep into your arrangment (assuming the differences between the two are subtle).
Do you have a system to check for that, are is it just being meticulous about saving the vframes and metaframes frequently, whenever you makechanges in VEPro.
What I do in saving the viframes is a descriptive name that matches the metaframe name in some way, which corresponds with the project name in Cubase. So, EG: Metaframe [Project name "1,3" [Mallets, Batterie, Synths|Winds, Strings]]; and the viframe name follows that, perhaps with more detail, although I'll tend to save like that at the end of a project for later purposes in a folder, 'categorical'. The project will kind of be a certain character with me, and if I should be going back and forth, they are two aspects of a larger thing I recognize the differences of as very conscious decisions (that I would avoid if feasible and consolidate into one) so my chance of the sort of confusion you're asking after isn't so high. It is pretty common I will save the viframe itself and I overwrite the previous name if I do not need a new name. So, I pretty much know the names how I work.
Sometimes I will put a synth, strings or electric bass in 1 rather than 3 which tends to mean before I conceived of the template for 3, such as right now I have a stripped-down frame for super-low latency which is percussion, bass, and drums. The difference of finding those guys in 1 rather than 3 is not going to much bother me. I even put some percussion in "3" in the last project but it was special and it had to do with the enormity of "1" in this case, I didn't forget it, I was dealing with it all the time.
2 is always BFD2. 1 is always basically perc., and 3 is always basically ww/brass. 4 is going to be elaborate sound design.
This framework of VEP isn't going to change, I believe, because this is more flexible. Like I said you can change the project name at any time and save the metaframe anew.
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The key for me is the project name corresponds with 'song name' in Cubase. The metaframe name at the top level starts with that and where necessary indicates the population of the viframes: "1" [mallets, military, Arab, processed], for instance. Right now, I have one keyboard in mind for "1" and I'm going to save a viframe without it, as I cannot raise the latency, and one with it (or maybe just a channel set) and subsequent more layering. So yes, I'm saving the viframes in kind of a paranoid state. Decoupling forces this state of mind; Cubase crashes and I'm SOL with changes unsaved, which I do not only at meta and viframe level but channel sets, all the time.
sorry for the verbosity, but maybe you can get some ideas on organization from all this.
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Thank so much for the detailed reply.
One of the wonderful things about music is there is no limit to the number of ways that people approach the various components (composing, playing, recording, engineering etc). I now understand why this system works for you.
I have a different approach, so it would be more cumbersome for me. Of course, no one approach is right, and I do have different ways of tackling projects depending on whether it is big band jazz, combo, film score arrangments, audio recording, etc. For me, that is part of the fun and joy.
Steven
