I agree.   It's would be nice if the sample stretching/generating can also be MIDI activated. 

+1 to that!!!

from a practical point of view, how challenging would that be for VSL to implement?

it seems like an obvious addition but I suspect it would take a lot of under the hood reprogramming.

but would offer so much more flexibility to the user!

DM

As a non string player I have enjoyed this thread and particularly noldarts post. Here's another question:

What does the "start" controller do to the interval. There are two settings and the a slider. Do they truncate part of the interval? The front part or the back part? What is the difference between the two settings (found in advance patch settings of vi pro)?

I raised the issue of legatos as soon as I bought Dimension strings, but the response was not terribly accomodating.

As a result I have rarely used them, especially for legatos.  For me the legatos are not 'legato' enough, certainly much less so than the Apassionatas.  I here very little transition between notes, just a new note starting, which doesn't deliver the right impression when trying to write expressive passages.   Subtlety is sometimes a good thing, but often a phrase needs a more pronounced legato feel.

The staccatos and short articulations are great, and I have used them for that purpose, but I second any motion to try and improve the legato/portamento performance on offer - however it's delivered.

@Trailerman said:

For me the legatos are not 'legato' enough, certainly much less so than the Apassionatas.  I here very little transition between notes, just a new note starting, which doesn't deliver the right impression when trying to write expressive passages

I agree with that. In fact, I would go further. I think that the legatos need to be re-edited, because I don't think that they are of the same quality as the rest of VSL String libraries. I don't want to hear holes between start and destination notes, and lumpy transitions. Fix those, and then let's talk about whether or not there should be Presets for different speeds of Portamento.

DG

@DG said:

I agree with that. In fact, I would go further. I think that the legatos need to be re-edited, because I don't think that they are of the same quality as the rest of VSL String libraries.

Interesting, because for me the DS legatos work better than any other string collection we have produced.

best

Herb

I'm very sorry Herb, as much as I think VSL does an incredible work on their libraries and especially the Dimension Violins, I must say that kind of answer is not helping. You might as well add we're all a bunch of ignorant persons.

Best

 What do you expect? That's my honest opinion.

best

Herb

@strytten said:

What does the "start" controller do to the interval. There are two settings and the a slider. Do they truncate part of the interval? The front part or the back part?

Yes, you can shorten the start of the interval moving sample start point up to 50 MS into the interval samples.

Further length of the fade in into the interval samples can be adjusted. (Both setting are available in the Advanced Tab of VI PRO).

With the "Start" controller you simply scale the amount of these settings. Set to 0, nothing is altered, set to 127 exacxtly the settings applied in the advance tab will be performed.

best

Herb

We care about and respect your thoughts, Herb. It's the dismissive aspect of your answer that I personally feel less comfortable with.

This thread is now 2 pages long, it seems many customers are asking for more flexibility regarding the portamento articulation.

Your honest opinion is one thing, VSL trusting us to help improve some of its products is another. 'Please look into it' is all we're asking, and I think it's legitimate.

I for one like the legato as it is in Dimension Violins by the way. I think it sounds very natural, especially in conjunction with other perf articulations like pLeV and rPo. I only wish we had more options with it length-wise, without resorting to time consuming tweaking. Then again, the lack of freedom with portamento is the more important issue in my opinion.

Thank you :)

Best

@9u10m said:

We care about and respect your thoughts, Herb. It's the dismissive aspect of your answer that I personally feel less comfortable with.

This thread is now 2 pages long, it seems many customers are asking for more flexibility regarding the portamento articulation.

Your honest opinion is one thing, VSL trusting us to help improve some of its products is another. 'Please look into it' is all we're asking, and I think it's legitimate.

I for one like the legato as it is in Dimension Violins by the way. I think it sounds very natural, especially in conjunction with other perf articulations like pLeV and rPo. I only wish we had more options with it length-wise, without resorting to time consuming tweaking. Then again, the lack of freedom with portamento is the more important issue in my opinion.

Thank you 😊

Best

I think you misunderstood. Herb was responding to my (and Jules') comments. I don't think he was dismissing any of the previous comments. Certainly having been a member of this forum for 9 years, I have never seen him dismiss any comments, without careful thought and explanation.

However, the Portamento issue may be the most important thing to you, but it is a non-issue to me. In fact I dare say that in the time it has taken you to post about it, I could have already created all the different Presets that I need.  [;)]

Regarding length of transition for legato, I think that there are a few misunderstandings. This idea about different speeds of transition is mostly related to sample use and technology. It has very little to do with String playing. There is no such thing as a slow transition, unless the players are not playing together. What happens in real life, is that there is usually a dip down in volume when the note changes, due to the fact that many players use a kind of portato bowing when they change note, rather than a real slur. Therefore, the transition seems slower, when in fact it's just softer for a few milliseconds. If you want this sort of legato, just dip the Velocity xFade down as you change note, and the result will be the same. You will also find that as the notes change, the vibrato will stop and start again, so this also needs to be taken care of, in order to get the feeling of a slower transition. This last point is not valid with fast playing, because there will be no vibrato anyway.

I hope that this helps.

DG

@DG said:

I agree with that. In fact, I would go further. I think that the legatos need to be re-edited, because I don't think that they are of the same quality as the rest of VSL String libraries.

Interesting, because for me the DS legatos work better than any other string collection we have produced.

best

Herb

I can see that this is a subject for discussion the next time I am in Vienna. [;)]

DG

I am puzzled by this thread. 

Having used all the string libraries, Solo, Chamber, Orchestral, Appassionata and now Dimension, I recently did one of the most extreme examples in film music of legato strings - Vertigo's Scene d'amour.   This is the greatest string writing ever done for a movie.  And it features violin legato more than any other musical articulation. 

Using the Dimension Violins on this was simply FABULOUS!  I absolutely loved the legato sound of the violins - it was molto espressivo and very connected, fluid,  beautiful, and the complexity of slightly mistimed transitions added to the realism to an uncanny degree.  And this is in comparison to ALL the other string libraries. 

Also, I had programmed the Grieg "Last Spring" for the Appassionata/Orchestral strings, and then reprogrammed it recently for the Dimension violins.  They sound as good or better in legato. 

True, Appassionata has some more extreme portamento, mainly because it is a huge sweeping fluid sound of  twenty players on one note. Also, if more samples/programming tweaks are added that is always good.   But I simply never heard any problem with legato, and in fact think it is amazingly beautiful in the Dimension violins. 

I understand the comparisons to live strings as mentioned by some, and I understand William's point with his work on Vertigo and I agree with it all. However, if I have a piece where there's an exposed single string part, be it a violin or cello melody, I feel the regular VSL legato can at times not be lyrical enough, and the portamentos are simply too much. We need variations in-between. So, as I've said so many times, I've created these variations with time-stretching. But I wish I didn't have to do this.

Spot on ^

I haven't found any legato problems with DS. If anyone here would care to list a problematical note transition they have experienced within a certain patch (as opposed to general criticisms), I'd be happy to see if I can replicate it.

I haven't found any problematic transitions either, like I said, their quality-control is great.

Garylionelli

What an eloquent and diplomatically worded post.   I could not have put it better, and I totally second your thoughts and senitments.   VSL's QC is second to none - I've honestly never found a bad transition or a tuning issue in any of their libraries (I have most of them).

The issue is one of style, technical evolution and flexibility.  Legato programming is an area of the market that Vienna should own, and at the moment, it's not quite happening IMHO.   I fully accept that part of this comes down to personal taste, and that the small section size in Dim Strings also has a bearing, but I can't help feeling that if enough users are not wowed by the sound, then it might be worth looking at.

Conquer, I think you many have misunderstood the message being conveyed.  Nobody is suggesting any transitions are broken.

Hi Trailerman, DG's statement "I don't want to hear holes between start and destination notes, and lumpy transitions" suggested to me that something was broken.

@DG said:

I agree with that. In fact, I would go further. I think that the legatos need to be re-edited, because I don't think that they are of the same quality as the rest of VSL String libraries.

Interesting, because for me the DS legatos work better than any other string collection we have produced.

best

Herb

This is exactly what I thought about Dimension violins as soon as I heard the sound, which is why I don't understand this bizarre thread. 

I will post some more music instead of blabbering.