Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
Forum Statistics

202,275 users have contributed to 43,283 threads and 259,410 posts.

In the past 24 hours, we have 2 new thread(s), 7 new post(s) and 80 new user(s).

  1. Home
  2. General & Hardware
  3. First post

  • First post

    J
    J
    Hi - This is my first post so I hope it is in the right place! I have to say that I am a complete beginner in this seemingly very technical area. I have been looking at sample libraries - especially VSL - for some weeks now and am contemplating buying the Special Edition Vol. 1 (Essential Orchestra). It seems that the Vienna Instruments player comes free with this purchase. I have several questions if I may:- * Will I need anything else to help put my ideas down? * Does the VI player also have a sequencer - (I have seen the APP sequencer in video for the VI Pro)? * Is the 'piano roll' method the only way to input the sounds or is it possible to play in directly via a MIDI keyboard? I know these are embarrassingly simple questions and I apologise from the start for being Mr Neanderthal, but I would be extremely grateful for any help to get me started. (I am trying to work through all the site videos). Many thanks.
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    You do need a keyboard and/or Logic, Cubase ...
  • G
    G

    Hi!

    So the App Sequencer does not really help, you would need a software acting as squencer like

    A) A real sequencer like Cubase, Logic, Reaper, ProTools, ...

    Also these sequencers have different possibilities for entering the notes (I think all support pianoroll and midi input, cubase and ProTools in know to also support notation like input)

    B) A notation Program (Sibelius, Notion, Finale)

    Offering you slightly less control, but if you are used working with real notes it might help

    Keyboard is theoretically optional, (as it is just one of several input technologies), however working without Midi Keyboard is (from my point of view) something we should not do ...

    For an starter solution (if cost matters)  solutions It might be good to look into Reaper or http://www.notionmusic.com/products/notion_sle_vsl.html

    Rgds

    Gabriel
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    Notion is no good for large orchestrations
  • N
    N

    Before buying anything - and I mean anything - try to figure out as best you can how you want to work. 

    Do you prefer PC or Mac?  Note that at this time, the VSL libraries, and other VST's as well, run better on PC than on Mac, according to the major developers.  That doesn't mean you can't use a Mac if that is your preference, it just means that results are better on a PC.  Computer choice also will dictate, in some cases, what sequencer you use.  Cubase runs on both platforms - but, again, better on PC - while Logic is Mac only, and Sonar is PC only.  Digital Performer is currently Mac only, but they will be releasing a PC version sometime within the next few months.

    You will need a sequencer.  While a notation program is quite valuable (see below), notation programs simply do not allow for the degree of editing that is necessary to achieve the best results.  As mentioned above, Cubase, Logic, Digital Performer, and Sonar are all major programs.  Above all, you will want a sequencer that excels at editing MIDI data.  That will likely exclude some of the offerings available (all of the above mentioned sequencers are good options for MIDI).

    Do you prefer working with notation?  If notation, Finale or Sibelius are the two main notation programs (though Avid's recent decisions regarding the Sibelius' staff makes things a bit uncertain at the moment regarding Sibelius).  From what I understand, the notation in Cubase is fairly good.  Notion has some interesting features, but when I last checked it, its output quality was nowhere near as good as the other two programs.  If you have no intention of ever printing scores/parts, that may not be an issue.  Personally, I prefer working in notation, and only after completing a piece will I import it into Sonar (an easy step).  Note that Sonar's notation features are very sub-par.

    Many people work in notation, and then play in the parts using a Midi keyboard.  It is possible to save at least a few editing steps if you go that route.  Depending on your keyboard skills, that may, or may not, be an option.

    More than anything, expect to spend time learning the various programs.  To achieve good results, much editing will be required.

    Regarding VSL, the VI software is the best that is out there, by far.  Personally, I much prefer VI Pro 2 to the basic free VI as it provides much greater flexibility.  However, one should not start there.  The free VI is very good, and complex enough to have a bit of a learning curve in its own right.  After mastering the basic VI, consider VI Pro 2, if you find that you need its additional features.

    Most people (as did I), or so it seems, start with SE.  Depending on goals, some find SE to be enough, others eventually start buying the full collections.  A very common combination is SE, and then AP strings for the first full collection (note: for my own purposes, I went a different route).  Also, if you find SE to be enough, adding the "plus" portions could be useful as they add some important additional articulations.  The full collections provide many dynamics patches/chromatic sampling, and in the long run have many advantages - but SE has the advantage of providing an inexpensive way of getting a full orchestra, as well as providing a good way to determine if one wants to go deeper into the VSL libraries, or not.

    Also, please don't be afraid to ask questions.  You will find many here to be helpful.  There are so many options out there, from so many different companies, that it is easy to spend quite a bit of money on stuff you end up not using very much.  It is better to move slowly than to rush into purchases.

    Regarding computer power, the SE libraries require far less computer power to run well than the full DVD libraries.  In any case, get the best processor you can afford, and at least 12-16 gigs of ram if at all possible.  The following 4 SE libraries: 1, 1 plus, 2 and 2 plus, will run in 8 gigs of ram.

    One other thing: what sound card will you be using?  Some of the budget sound cards work quite well, but good drivers matter, as a poorly written driver can have a negative impact on overall performance.

    Again, don't be afraid to ask any questions you might have.
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC
    last edited
    last edited

    @noldar12 said:

    Before buying anything - and I mean anything - try to figure out as best you can how you want to work. 

    Do you prefer PC or Mac?  Note that at this time, the VSL libraries, and other VST's as well, run better on PC than on Mac, according to the major developers. 

    Since VSL re-wrote a lot of the Mac part, this has not been proved ;  I have proposed many time to do a benchmark !!!

    I can run with a very intensive midi trafic on 97 VI and 3 audio input with MIR 7.1 on my Mac and this using around 60% of its power !!!
  • J
    J

     Hi All - Wow! Thanks so much for the very helpful replies. Lots of very good advice for me to consider.

    As I said this is all very new technical stuff for me so I am on a steep learning curve!

    So - the samples need a player (the V.I. player) & this needs a DAW to act as a host. I am checking out Cubase etc as suggested. Does anyone have any experience of Rosegarden?

    I have Reaper on 30 days evaluation but am finding it difficult to maintain sound on record & playback. Also not sure if it has pianoroll facility.

    I have a pretty basic set up - IQON running Vista Home Premium. I added a 1Gig card a couple of years ago giving me 2 G's of RAM. (Don't laugh!)

    I guess I need to make some improvements as a priority!
  • N
    N

    Realistically, you are looking at either Windows or Mac O/S, as libraries like VSL, and others, are not designed to run on anything else.  Linux is not in the picture.  As already mentioned, developers state that VI's run better on Windows - though good performance can be had on a Mac.

    The last version of Vista - with the final service pack - actually works ok.  As for 2 gigs of ram, running just one SE library, you probably will be able to get away with it, particularly if you use very small templates, but even adding a second SE library will potentially cause problems.  Streaming sample libraries requires much more computer power than doing regular generic stuff.  Note that I was able to run SE 1, SE 1+, SE 2, and SE 2+ quite well with 8 gigs of ram on an older quad core Q9550 (not enough for MIR Pro, etc., though). 

    Hard drive speed also matters.  Using a 5400 rpm drive to stream samples generally causes audio glitches and problems, as the drive simply is not fast enough.  One needs a 7200 rpm drive, and it is best if the sample libraries are on a different drive from the o/s.
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    You want to run Cubase and VSL on VISTA !  good luck ! it is better to go on XP

    Having the samples and the system and your song on 3 different drives is Mandatory, 10 000 rpm drive are recommanded 

    It better to use Raid of HD, SSD and Raid of SSD to put the samples

    If you want to use MIR with large orchestra in 5.1 or 7.1 a double Xeon 2x6 core is mandatory
  • N
    N

    Again, Vista with the last service pack will be fine (going to W7 would perhaps be better as it is current).  With the release of the last service pack, Microsoft finally got the bugs worked out of Vista, and at that point it was not that much different from W7.  However, in terms of longevity, because the initial release of Vista was horrible, I tend to doubt that Microsoft will extend the service of it anywhere near as long as they have with XP - but I could be wrong, of course.  Even though Vista was eventually fixed, the huge amount of (initially well deserved) bad press has never been overcome.

    I agree with Cyril about having three different drives.  7200 RPM will be fine, though SSD, if you have the budget, is the best option, especially for loading and streaming samples.  At this point I would probably still record to a 7200 RPM drive though, as SSD on the "write" side is not as good as on the "read" side.
  • J
    J

     Hi all - Thanks again very much for all the advice. Very much appreciated. All the abbreviations are new to me - but Google is a great help!

    Noldar12 - How would I change from Vista to W7? I guess I have to buy the software - is it a case of just uninstalling Vista & installing W7?

    Cyril's suggestion (thank you Cyril) regarding 3 separate drives - would these be external drives in addition to the existing drive? What size would cope with average usage? (I don't envisage using full orchestras just yet!).

    And, of course, I need to cost all this up! 
  • N
    N

    Honestly, when it comes to upgrading the o/s, I let someone else do it (can't help you there).  Still, if you are on a tight budget, upgrading the o/s would be a lower priority IMO.  You should be able to simply download the last service pack for Vista if you don't have it already. 

    As for the drives, generally they would all be internal, if you have the room.  You are looking at three total: 1) o/s, other software programs; 2) for recording compositions; 3) for storing samples.
  • J
    J

     Just been checking out GPO. Does anyone have any thoughts about it?

    Listened to some of the demo's - read all the advertising copy but still can't find out if the instruments are real samples or synthesized??? 
  • N
    N

    I've answered in more detail in your other thread...

    Didn't include the following though in that thread: the instruments in GPO are real samples, just nowhere near the quality of any of the VSL libraries.  That doesn't make it "bad" - just a very different overall focus and not intended to be in the same league as VSL.