Thanks for trying Beat.  Is really a shame.  I am surprised that is all the feedback you received.  This is such a huge black hole, trying to find information on how to mix orchestral sample music.  I suspect there are tremendous more people who need something like this that simply never seen your offer or links.

Additionally it is very sad how cruel people can be.  It never feels good to have people joke or attack something you are passionate about.  While I have been fortunate to only have asked 3 questions total on the Cubase forums, the answers were good because I made sure I had no other avenue but to ask.  Some of the threads I read there, wow, those people can absolutely be rude and very condescending.

I really appreciate you at least considering helping some of us that would love to see it, but I can see how you might feel trying to decide between time spent and income received.  i wish you all the best Beat and hope that your generous giving to the community doesn't stop here.  Maybe you don't hear it often, or from all the voices that you have helped but we really do appreciate what you do (at least I can speak for myself).

Maestro2be

@cgernaey said:

...I wish you all the best Beat and hope that your generous giving to the community doesn't stop here.  Maybe you don't hear it often, or from all the voices that you have helped but we really do appreciate what you do (at least I can speak for myself)...

Maestro2be

Thanks for you kind words. I'm getting a lot of such feedbacks but nevertheless you like such compliments at any time again.

I've decided to write a small tutorial about using effects for "mixing our music". If it becomes a hit I can still write the second part about "mixing an orchestra".

For now and for as a consolation for your kindness: a small Excerpt from Bach's 1st Piano Concerto... 😉

Maybe the orchestra is not as close to the conductor as you wish but at least the piano - have fun!

Thanks once more, with kind regards

Beat

 Too bad ... I didn't have enough time to check that but as it is (was) a wonderful idea, it was in my schedule.

We never know all :)

Anyway, I'll looking for your next tutorials for sure !

Best

@knechtodawas said:

Maybe you should have extended the voting period. I believe there are many people who only look from time to time into this forum. Me for example: If it still would be online today I would vote FOR such a tutorial!

Hi Knechtodawas

Thanks for your feedback

What are you interested in? Are there special themes? or is it the process of mixing music over all?

Beat

@knechtodawas said:

Hi Beat, I am interested in the mixing process of orchestral music in general. What I really would like to see is a video tutorial of a complete mixdown.

Hello Knechtodawas

I suspect that your mother tongue is German (because of "Knecht..."). If this is true you will be able to read the planed concept of the tutorial here in the Cubase Forum:

http://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=23985 (post 6)

About Videos.

Watching a video is OK but for really having a successful future with your mixes you need to practice everything.

Example: You need to find cutting points of a highpass filter yourself and this for any instrument. So you should try to do this yourself sometimes.

So my approach would be to teach and guide you for using all the effects and give you certain exercises incl. music files which have to be treated...

Mixing is such a complex process. This needs some hours of practice. You can't get all the knowledge by simply watching a 60-min video.

As I mentioned above I'm going to write a smaller Tutorial about using different effects in connection with orchestra samples.

I hope to publish it by the end of comming August.

If this tutorial will get a "best seller" I will write Part 2 - so to say.

This would be about "mixing an orchestra" and this 2nd Part will need the knowledge of Part 1 about the effects.

Beat

I have been too late as well ;(

If this might come up again, I would also be interrested (And willing to pay) in this tutoria, as long it is suited for Novices

Rgds

Gabriel

@gabriel81 said:

I have been too late as well ;(

If this might come up again, I would also be interrested (And willing to pay) in this tutoria, as long it is suited for Novices

Rgds

Gabriel

Hi Gabriel

Thanks for your interest.

Even if a complete and unversal "mixing tutorial" isn't come into sight there is not "Nothing".

So sorry for advertising the existing "Tutorial VSL" here, but you are going to mix this piece more or less 1:1 with it - using the Suite Effects.

See also the content of Tutorial VSL (Chapter 9 - 13 for the mixing matter)

The history shows the additions in the course of time (always free of charge).

All the best

Beat

Hallo Beat,

welchen Workflow würdest Du für VSL Special Edition, VE, VI vorschlagen, da es bei mir Probleme gibt, die einzelnen AU und VST Plug Ins in VE zu benutzen. Ich habe wenig VSL Erfahrung bisher und verbringe viel Zeit am Rechner um für mich sinnvolle Arbeitstechniken im Vorfeld zu checken,

Was wäre dagegen zu sagen, alle Instrumente Logic intern zu verwalten, sprich, alle VIs in individuelle Kanäle in Instrument Strips zu ziehenm um die volle PlugIn (VST, AU) Kompatibilität zu haben. Möglicherweise gibt es ja doch eine Möglichkeit, diese in VE zu installieren

Vielleicht würdest Du mir einen Tip geben können, was Workflow, Speicherverwaltung etc bei der Benutzung von VE vs Logics Environment angeht.

Danke

Viele Grüße

TIm

Hi Tim B, 

The forum language is english, thanks for sticking to it. This way everybody can profit from questions and answers [:)]

To answer the question: The advantage of working with VE (PRO) is that you have all instruments in ONE host that also allows you to mix and work with various templates. 

On OSX, we´re using AU Plug-ins exclusively in VE (PRO). Bear in mind that sequencer-specific plug-ins will only be available in the given sequencer.  

Furthermore: Not all plug-ins are available in 64-bit yet, so please check that you are using VE (PRO) in the right mode. 

Best, 
Paul 

@Tim B said:

...Was wäre dagegen zu sagen, alle Instrumente Logic intern zu verwalten, sprich, alle VIs in individuelle Kanäle in Instrument Strips zu ziehenm um die volle PlugIn (VST, AU) Kompatibilität zu haben?

Hi Tim

Beside the advantages which Paul explained above: VE isn't necessary. I often use the VIs within Cubase without any VE - just as a "normal" VSTi. You also can route and mix all the signals within Logic because Logic is a host as well. Maybe it is easier for you to start without VE for getting more practice with the VI. If you are closer to the VI and its use you will maybe lucky also "to have VE handy".

So for starting with VSL...

I propose to create a sort of basic organisation within the VI for a faster workflow. This allows you to exchange instruments and to create the wanted template in a short time.

Further, if you got a mixer setup within logic - let's say for the strings - save it for a next project.

The recipe is to think in modules which will allow you to be fexible and to collect orchestra templates in a short time later on.

But one thing you always should take into account: Getting such modules and Presets needs time. So be a bit patient. Don't forget that you can listen today to demos which are produced by members with 10 and more years of experience (...including me).

Later on you can use these presets and experiences within VE.

As I mentioned above: An advantage of VE is the creation of whole orchestra modules (pdf) >> load them and play it just with the correct mix and samples inside VE...

Followed by: the creation of a whole orchestra with such modules... Those modules are easier to handle with VEs than with just Logic.

(The link above - a pdf - shows the idea of such modules but it also gives you some hints how to get a good mix of an orchestra. It probaly helps to understand the meaning of VE in a better way as well. Unfortunately it is advertising in the mean time. Sorry for that reason. But I don't have another and neutral paper about this theme.)

Hope this helped a bit

Beat

Dear Paul,

allright. Thanks for the 64/32 bit idea. Good info. I have some 3rd party stuff I still think to be related to, but need some support on getting into the VSL surroundings.Watching a lot of tuts and getting on youre nervs.

I would love to use all of your offerings  as I am very interested in finding my way in combining tech and artistic means. I record a lot of music for my living and on the other side to keep it alive I play a lot. I do this quite a while and some voices inside me talk about writing my own stuff, which I always did but not to a very exposed manner. I feel, with VSL it gets to a stage to really get into hearing an amazing sonic artistic result, which posively feedbacks the process of improvement of your own writing on a project.

So...

I am very keen on dwelving into this world but see myself hanging a lot on computer issues to find the best way to bring everything together. So first things first...

Thanks again for your work on this amazing library and kind support!

Best regards

Tim

Dear Beat,

Yes I spent the whole night building an orchestral template in Pro Tools, which I wanted to give a shot as well. The problem was the Third Party PlugIn implementation, which brought me to this decision. I don´t care too much on checking as being part of our profession, I want to keep it flexible, finding best workaround scenario here, knowing the key points,

AND...:

I now have a template which works fine for classical writing!! Okay so far.

I think the VE5 idea that you are pointing to has a lot of advantages, time saving and so on, by using modules which only have to be loaded once. Thats cool. I have to try the modules out (supporting 64/32 bit), but have to work with my beloved PlugIns I am used to now, although it is intended to check out more of the VSL mixing stuff in the future, but my setup has to work for me now in connection with the implementation of VSL. I cannot switch my whole thing here at once.

I try to give everything a shot as I am amazed of hearing my compositional ideas and sketches via VSL. That is exciting and self propelling to me with that sonic results.

 So - I am very glad on your views and insights as experienced users Thanks again to Paul´s  and your oppinions and energy spending some time here with my issues... ;-)

BTW: nice material of yours. Cool! I saw a thread mentioning you skipped an idea of writing a manual? Would be a shame, what I saw so far.

I feel the interconnection of technical demands - especially software & hardware communication (LAN, MTC, Audio routings, Synchronization, PlugIns etc. ) - is important for the future. None of us only uses one tool and the inerplay of these is very time consuming as I experience my whole professional live and finding myself sitting on the screen being solitude sometimes as one can be in those moments :-). We all know that, I guess.

It is not the issue of the individual developers to take care on others products, this is quite clear to me. VSL does an amazing job as I know about recording techniques and classical music production being Tonmeister myself. What I hear is great although I only use the basic package (SE 1 PLUS)

I once tried to synchronize two computers with Logic and ProTools etc., all that ideas should be merged and find a way in a manual which spans the technical and artisitical combination of our work. A useful focus in my oppinion for such a manual would be that these amazing technical achievements are regarded to be "only" the vehicle for creative artistic work on top.

I would love to have a section on  the differences on how the intended music is produced. Do you sketch it on paper, do you play it directly into your system via Midi, how do you come close to what you hear in your mind etc...

Allright!

Again Thank you very much!

Best regards

Tim

...just installed VE Pro 5. Are there any Pro Tools, Logic Project Templates out there...?

Thx

T

Greetings Beat, I was wondering if you have any plans of a tutorial about creating an orchestral mix with MIR PRO?

@Another User said:

I was wondering if you have any plans of a tutorial about creating an orchestral mix with MIR PRO?

Hi Sami

Drag & Drop the instruments into MIR - play them - the mix is done... [;)]

More serious: What do you want to get with such a tutorial? What could be the aim(s)?

All the best

Beat

Hello Beat. My main problem is that I'm much more of a composer than a recording engineer, so while MIR pro is absolutelu a lifesaver for me with all it's capabilities, there are some issues I can't seem to get just right. The biggest concern for me is without a doubt EQ:ing. When listening to a high-quality symphonic recording, all the instruments have such a clear own space and are so beautifully hearable even in louder passages. I think this has a lot to do with getting a functioning EQ setting for all the instruments. Maybe the right compression for each instrument/group is also an important factor.

Then another thing is that I think I can get a pretty good volume balance between different instruments, but still while I think instruments A and B are in good balance and same with instruments B and C, might the balance between A and C be a bit of and so on. Well, three instruments are not that many and are usually manageable, but when there are much more of them these issues begin to pop up. I think that correct EQ:ing would be of big help with this problem too.

So my ultimate desire would be to learn how to get from a decent mix with all the instruments placed conveniently on a MIR pro stage to a final result sounding like high quality professional symphonic recording.

@Another User said:

Then another thing is that I think I can get a pretty good volume balance between different instruments, but still while I think instruments A and B are in good balance and same with instruments B and C, might the balance between A and C be a bit of and so on.

Use the VST-MIR in your DAW and within the DAW the "Track-Automation". This means: Vary the volume over the time of instruments or of whole

groups of instruments for getting the correct balance between of them.

Scoring programs don't offer such a track automation I believe. In that case you can export a midifile for producing the music within a DAW

(Logic, Cubase.) High demands need the corresponding software...

Hope that my proposals can improve your mxes a bit

All the best

Beat

Something that seemingly got lost during the last few years: In the early days of audio engineering, the guy who was in charge for the job known as "mixing" nowadays was called "balancing engineer". For a good reason! In the end, it's all about a good balance between all the signals - and this balance is a moving target. In other words: Don't forget that it's so easy nowadays to automate levels (and everything else) within your DAW. Every mixer worth his/her money will fine-tune a mix with great care, and it may happen that almost all faders will move constantly all the time.

BTW ... don't look at it as an "engineering task". It's much more like a contemporary variety of a conductor's job.

Kind regards,