I love Spitfire.  Some seriously killer sounding stuff.  I love VSL as well, breathtaking the scope of all their products both software and samples. EastWest however, are the worse company on earth; I will never buy another EW product period.

dsilvercoin,

First, sorry pal but this is a long reply from a long winded guy. Second, I've replied assuming you're going to use this for film or t.v. scoring scenarios, whether mockup or production use.

Long term investment and believability (realism in sound) are always the most important traits to any library for me. VSL and Spitfire are the ONLY two libraries that have ever lived up to my standards for realism. With that in mind, one cannot ignore that Spitfire has a highly restrictive license and libraries. The expensive stuff requires that you regularly hire performers (which my being in the 'I'm pursuing a career' stage in my life, does not function within their policy). The affordible stuff has a good sound, but 1) It's nothing I can't obtain from VSL. It's just a good 'out of the box' sound, meaning less tweaking required. Also, 2) that 'less tweaking' point is paramount to me. The lower cost libraries offer no flexibility and very limited articulations. One can only make something sound believable with such limitations.

Another point is software. Spitfire has no desire to persue software development. While I used to love Kontakt (and still find occasional uses for it), Vienna Instruments Pro 1.0 blew Kontakt out of the water. It truly was a night and day difference for my productivity and ease of use. Yes, there was a learning curve. To get my samples sounding how I want, I had to put forth a bit of hard work and effort. But now that I do, my only owning the Special Edition, SE Strings Plus, Fanfare Trumpets, and Epic Horns dwarf any other library's ability to sound real. VI Pro 2.0 is now out and it is even more phenominal. The enveloped time stretching has given me tremolo and trill possibilities previously unavailable. I now have performances that no other library can even acheive.

By all means, Spitfire is good. If you want quick and easy and one style only, I'd say go for it. But if you want to actually write anything according to your composing choices, style, and so on- AND if you want to write for multiple styles of music... I'd say VSL is the far more logical choice. In the end all of those points boil down to investment to me. My priority is VSL. Why? Because I can do anything with it and sound better than any other library available. Because I am not limited by wet samples. Because their software allows for far more productive approaches than Kontakt could ever dream.

In the end, it's better to own both, everything even. It's even better to record real performances. But for the time and money, it's VSL. For the flexibility and quality of sound, it's VSL. I may sound a bit too VSL fanboy-ish but it is only because of my good experience. I could care less about asthetics and simpleton way that some companies approach things. I care about function above all else. VSL functions best imo. So the cost is far more justified.

Hopefully that helps,

-Sean

P.S. I had a friend explain how much he loved Hollywood Strings. I explained that 'There is no such thing as a Hollywood Cello'. What one needs in the industry is not the same sound that everyone else is producing. No one wants that. What they want is the ability to do that sound, other sounds, richer, darker, louder, and every other kind of sound one can imagine. When in film scores I hear dry, wet, and every other combination of everything out there... I can't help but remember that VSL is dry, and no one else really is. I can do both, they can't. That may seem like a simple answer, but in the end... what is more effective and what is going to give you the flexibility you need to produce anything asked of you?

That's a good post.  VSL has a depth of sound that has a truly lasting value since its based on great musical quality.   Even the old First Edition instruments are still used all the time.  But another part of this last post that is very true is the software aspect.  I also use Kontakt, EW, Play, used to do Gigastudio, etc.  But as soon as Vienna Ensemble/Instruments came out I completely adapted to it and now all the other systems are so clumsy in comparison I don't want to bother with them unless I have to - which is basically never.  There is an elegant quality to the VSL software that is perfect for selecting and using samples in any way you can dream of. 

... a Hollywood cello!  I love it.    Now what I really need is a Hollywood Tuba.

@William said:

Now what I really need is a Hollywood Tuba.

And the Hollywood Piccolo! Over 20GB of pure piccolo delight! Each articulation played specifically with film in mind! lol, wow...

More cowbell, anybody ...?

*duck and run*

 dsilvercoin,

Spitfire has some great stuffs, but the low budget line they offer to the general audience comes not even close to what VSL offers. Spitfire's top line is probably the best out there but 18k for a bundle of strings... too pricey... add the ridiculous restriction rules on top of that.

People are fed up with EastWest company for many different reasons but I advise you to check out their latest products, Hollywood Strings and Hollywood Brass. They are of a different level, nothing like the old EastWest products.

VSL still offers the widest range of instruments

regards

@Dietz said:

More cowbell, anybody ...?

lol, what's sad is that if VSL produced an alpen horn, you bet I'd buy it!

1) Because I've actually played one in Switzerland (not that this really justifies anything)

2) Because I'm fairly sure the original William Tell Overature actually have an Alpen horn in it. If Rossini can do it, so can I!!

Now I better scedaddle also before VSL deletes my account for getting even more dull on here [|-)] 

I own all the Spitfire "Commercial Line" (low priced) libraries. They're very nice, and I expect to get a lot of use out of them. They have a unique sound. That said, they do not approach my VSL libraries in terms of number of articulations, number of dynamic ranges, or fit and finish (not to say that looser performances don't sometimes have a certain charm, but you really want a perfect performance in your toolk kit first). VSL is far ahead in this department.

I see things like Spitfire's Albion, Solo Strings, Harp and Percussion as things that one would add for more variety after you already had the VSL libraries (and in fact, they say that themselves). Otherwise, you're going to come up short when you need articulations that the Spitfire commercial line libraries just don't have.

I'd be interested to see what those really expensive Spitfire libraries are like, but I can't justify the price tag. I'd be pretty sure, though, that more care and effort has gone into VSL (and EW) products, just because of the economy of scale.

@dsilvercoin said:

Is it safe to assume there a VSL bias in the VSL forum, or is it as good as everyone is saying

lol, by all means a valid question. I like spitfire a lot. I've never said that of any other library. DVZ, Garritan, Cinematic, WIVI, EWQL, LASS, Miroslav, and so on... all have commendable traits and weakpoints. I generally find that the pro's are never enough and ultimately the quality is seriously lacking. I wouldn't have invested my money into VSL had I not seriously given it heavy consideration. So yes, I love VSL's product. But I also love Spitfire's stuff. I think it sounds phenominal and is the only real competitor to VSL, imo. So by all means I don't just favor VSL. I really like both oferrings. But every last word from every last user on this thread, regarding the flexability of VSL, is absolutely spot on accurate. That is the primary difference you would find between both library's.

It is true what Lee Blaske said on here. Spitfire does even state on their own site that they do not offer a full library in their commercial products. But that their baseline offerings are primarily best used as add-ons to your existing library.

As far as how to approach buying VSL if you think VSL will serve your needs best...

I bought the Special Edition cause it's all I could afford. However, after using it for a while- I was surprized to find that I want more of things I wouldn't have thought previously. I want more strings all around, I only want the brass sections completely right now, and woodwinds I want sections first, then solo instruments. This is all based on my owning the Special Edition though. If I started without that, I'd go an entirely different route. I prefer the SE route first though. It's a good way to get to know the library and it gives you a good starting point to add from and still have a wide ranging base.

Although every one of us is different and would likely do approach the library in our own way. The most important thing I personally would recommend is Vi Pro 2.0 - As much as I love this library's sound, this piece of software has made my life MUCH easier.

Hopefully that helps you. It's certainly MY experience, so one might call that bias. But my experience doesn't neglect anyone. If anyone ever came out with a library I actually thought was better, I'd buy it. I don't love samples. I love real performers. When I have them, I'll almost exclusively use them, unless when it is better not to, or when additional work is useful. So I'm not glue'd to VSL in that very real sense. But by the current offerings, I see no other choice.

Regarding whether SE would be worth it or not... What can be done with SE dwarfs other companies full library's imo. (With the exception of the full private Spitfire range anyway).

-Sean

P.S. On the bias point. This forum sees people ask what you have from time to time. And each time, several people reply. By all means, VSL owners are happy with VSL. [:D]

-Sean

People always say you can get pretty much any sound of of VSL Ochestral Strings but I have never heard a demo that comes anywhere close to the sound and style of Albion out of the box.  They are just very different.  Granted, Albion is far more limited but if you need and like that sound it's really awesome imo.  Appassionata was real cool too but I found the playability kind of off, very jumpy in the dynamics.

My favorite VSL samples are the Solo Strings.

 dsilvercoin,

First, it's true the comment replies you read will sound VSL biased. I will try to be as non biased I can be trying to match what you are looking for. You mentioned that you have a limited budget. So based on that information, your best choice as for now is the VSL Special Edition. You will need to get the "extended" articulation to get something real going. Now, as far as demos goes, VSL frankly post as many demos as possible and not necesarily coming from top pro midi sequencers. So you will listen a lot of crappy demos. Secondly, websites like Spitfire and Eastwest (I'm only talking about the Hollywood Strings and Hollywood Brass demos) have limited demo songs and done by top notch guys. These guys they are experts on MIDI sequencing, audio engineers and composers at the same time. So good luck if you want your demos sound like the ones on their website. It will require you countless hours, and most importantly, ur knowledge of how an orchestral instrument sound and blend as an ensemble in real life

 dsilvercoin, (continued)

now, if you compare general demo sound between Spitfire and VSL, it's like night and day IMO. Spitfire accomplished the "analog" sound that lots of people love. Most classical engineers call that the "Herbert Von Karajan" sound of the late 1960's and early 1970's. VSL tried to pioneer that sound years earlier but they did it with a different formula that didn't work that well IMO. The closest to Spitfire sound is the new Hollywood Strings and Hollywood Brass from East West. Check them out, it's nothing like the old EW products. Spitfire is really cool but it's too limited for my taste. Just notice that all it comes down to your budget

dsilvercoin,

Just to give you another insite. Check VSL Demo's from the Classical section "Barber: Adagio for Strings" and "Holst: Jupiter." They are the best demos from VSL. If you know these works, you would say it comes very close to a real orchestra. I honestly don't like any other demos from VSL website

dsilvercoin,

I was just giving you a thought... you mentioned that this site sounded bias... well, people on this site express their opinion freely. If VSL is not worth the money, then they would tell you. And people like me remind you that just because you get an "Air Jordan" shoes, doens't mean you will fly and play like Michael Jordan. A good basketball player will play better bare footed than a mediocre player with "Air Jordan" on. Now, I have to tell you again that I'm very impressed with Hollywood Strings, and Hollywood Brass's demos

 dsilvercoin,

One last insite, I'm very sure that the VSL board member are having a meeting right now, trying to figure how to raise the VSL to the next level. VSL has been standard up until last year or so. Many people are thankful to VSL for what they have done with their products and keep most users very happy. But the new stuffs from East West and Spitire gave them a wake up call. They have to admit that these other companies products are good and better soundwise. Spitfire if correctly campaigned and amplify their products can be a lethal threat to VSL. But IMO, if VSL matches the sound and the spacial sound that EW or Spit provides, I definetly stay with VSL. As a beginner just focus on experiment your orchestral sound or u can start by imitating an orchestral work recorded by let say... the Berlin Philharmonic

peace 

@w21994 said:

VSL has been standard up until last year or so. Many people are thankful to VSL for what they have done with their products and keep most users very happy. But the new stuffs from East West and Spitire gave them a wake up call. They have to admit that these other companies products are good and better soundwise.

A user provided comparisons of several different companies on here (via soundcloud) playing the same piece. This included all of VSL's best different offerings and the new Hollywood String library. By all means, HS did not raise any bars. What most users did find was that HS performed a couple things better, and VSL performed a couple things better... and so on. Every library has strong suits. Even more so, every library has strong suits for an exact and specific song or phrase. Real performers can be that flexible and more. VSL most certainly will come out with some amazing new string library. I am sure of this. Most of us have already talked at length about it and we've gotten a little back from VSL, enough to know that things are developing. Plus, we know that VSL records every day. 

I have had a decent level of exposure in playing Hollywood Strings live and in editing and it isn't a bad library. I'm not trying to attack other libraries as being bad. I simply don't see a higher bar in them. Dimension Brass however, did the bar in recording the ensemble while isolating each player and the only other competior product didn't do anything in recording methods to match that level of sophistication. It simply stuck to 'the old methods'.

And as for the comment regarding Albion sounding better than VSL... uh... not quite. It has an amazing sound. I like it a lot. But I wouldn't call it better. VSL can sound just as great if one knows how to mix well. Albion might already have things done to it, but that just makes it a less flexible sound out of the box... not to mention the less flexible instrumentation restrictions.

If anyone else is wondering how to approach which library...

The best thing you can do is really look at what each library offers and decide how flexible it will be for your needs and what you want out of it. Then listen and think about what sounds most real and most flexible to accomplish any style, etc. After that buy a basic offering and go from there. I've used nearly every library I talk about. The only other flexible library I have no personal experience is with DVZ. I don't really buy into the effects libraries where one can't really compose so I'll neglect those. But in the end, I made MY decision and that's the way it should really be for everyone.

As for why I recommend VSL so strongly- it is only because ever since I installed this library, I've never looked back. I've never been anywhere near as satisfied with other companies, the quality and consistency within their libaries, or the software.

Consistency is another great point. Sampling is an entire philosophy of decisions. I love the VSL software philosophy. I've found more stability in VSL than any other program I use. I love the recordings, because dry is flexible and I achieve amazing results. But the consistency point is often neglected on here. That is, that with every other library I find inconsistent problems out the wazzoo, with playback problems on certain notes, with things not working quite right, with numerous other problems. Most of that is workable, but it takes more time and effort to adjust your performance to compensate for such inconsistency. With VSL, the library is far more solid than others. That's something I've seen a lot of on here from others who've commented.

-Sean

 iscorefilm,

I agree with you mostly. There is no doubt, if compared AB style between HS vs VSL section, like strings for instance... there would be not noticeable difference. Now, what first time users find in the demos provided by each company, there is a great deal of difference. And the question is simple, when all the sections get together for a song, HS demos stand out and so does Spitfire. And we are talking about only the DEMOS. And I have a hard time convincing myself that it's just the software. I think it has more to do the samples itself. I would like to hear your opinion of why HS sounds more real. They got plenty of demos on their web which I'm sure you heard them