MIR - VIENNA INSTRUMENTS PRO-DIMENSIONAL BRASS

[Stephen W. Beatty]

1.I installed the Dimensional Brass today and opened an instance in MIR. At first glance does one  have to open 4 instances of the Dimensional Brass in the Standard Vienna Instruments and assign different parts on separate lines to play a multi part horn section?

2. It is my understanding that the Vienna Instruments Pro is designed to allow the user to assign multiple parts in one instance of VI PRO, is this true?

3. Is the VI Pro software able to integrate into MIR like the Standard Vienna Instrument does? 

Thanks, 

Stephen W. Beatty

http://www.youtube.com/user/Bachbeatty

[Dietz]

@Stephen W. Beatty said:

[...]

3. Is the VI Pro software able to integrate into MIR like the Standard Vienna Instrument does?

No, not yet, sorry to say so. We are working on it.   EDIT: Wrong information. Of course it does - read my message later in this thread. /d

BTW - the Instrument Profiles of the "classic" solo Vienna Instruments are _not_ the ones you should chose for Dimension Brass, even if the actual instruments seem to be the same. Neither the Natural Volume nor the Directivity Profiles will fit. I strongly suggest to use a high directivity General Purpose profile for all instruments except the horns. The latter will do best with an "omni" General Purpose profile for now. The volumes should be set according to taste.

Kind regards.

[cgernaey]

I can't wait to see how you figure out how to spread the patches for auto-voicing in MIR Dietz.  For instance, in VI Pro we can insert 4 patches and setup all 4 to be in different pans etc.  Then when we play 4 notes we get 4 different sounding patches (and physically they sound in different parts of the stage).  You would somehow need to have 4 seperate MIR icons on the stage to work together as one multi-instrument so that when you played one note it played on violins/brass 1, then two notes it addes the violins2/brass2 which is placed right beside it on the MIR stage (or on the opposite side as I sometimes do to make the violins/brass sound very large in the stereo field) and so on for 3, 4 or more notes.

Is this something you've considered tackling within MIR?  Or is it working already and I am missing how to do it?  This would be a massive leap forward for me since I do all of my stuff in real time.

Maestro2be

[Dietz]

You didn't miss anything. :-)

I understand your thoughts, but for your "wide" setups it will be the best to use individual setups. Soundwise, Dimension Brass is primarily meant to be used as an homogeneous ensemble, much like the "conventional" ensemble recordings already available.

Of course, we will try to integrate Dimension Brass with MIR as good as possible, without sacrificing too much of the possibilites of both products. For now, please refer to the setup I outlined in my previous message.

Kind regards,

[Stephen W. Beatty]

BTW - the Instrument Profiles of the "classic" solo Vienna Instruments are _not_ the ones you should chose for Dimension Brass, even if the actual instruments seem to be the same. Neither the Natural Volume nor the Directivity Profiles will fit. I strongly suggest to use a high directivity General Purpose profile for all instruments except the horns. The latter will do best with an "omni" General Purpose profile for now. The volumes should be set according to taste.

You lost me Dietz. BTW?  "high directivity General Profile"? I am using MIR with the compatible version of VI that is installed with the MIR software. Where do I select these options. All I see in the Patch assign for horns is player 1 , 2, 3, 4. I could open four instances one for each horn player and then arrange them on the stage so play separate parts. The version of VI  I am using  allows for natural volume, and Dirrectivity Profile for Dry signal. What am I missing?

Regards,

Stephen W. Beatty

http://www.youtube.com/user/Bachbeatty 

[Dietz]

Dear Stephen,

the explanation on p. 38 of the MIR manual and especially the screenshot on p. 39 should make it clearer. :-)

[URL=http://img34.imageshack.us/i/mirdirectivityprofiles.jpg/][IMG]http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3879/mirdirectivityprofiles.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Kind regards

[Stephen W. Beatty]

Thanks Dietz,

I loaded the dimensional Horns into MIR, voiced a four part Horn section and pressed play. I WAS BLOWN OUT OF MY CHAIR!!!!!

THIS SOUNDS LIKE A REAL HORN SECTION. It is the first time, I have heard a midi horn section rendered with this detail. Usually midi Horn Sections  are just loud. Thanks to all who made this possible!

Regards,

Stephen W. Beatty

http://www.youtube.com/user/Bachbeatty 

[Dietz]

@Stephen W. Beatty said:

[...]

3. Is the VI Pro software able to integrate into MIR like the Standard Vienna Instrument does?

No, not yet, sorry to say so. We are working on it. [...]

WHO WAS WRITING THAT?!?!  [8o|] Oh, that was me .... [*-)]

SORRY!!!!! I WAS SIMPLY WRONG!!!!! I misread your message and thought you were asking about the integration of Dimension Brass and MIR.

OF COURSE Vienna Instruments Pro is able to integrate into MIR like the standard VI. There's even an option to convert existing MIR Projects to VI Pro.

Sorry for the confusion.

[William]

Hmm.... I just used the VI Pro instruments on this mix -

www.williamkersten.com/page13.html

On this I wanted to control the individual players more, so loaded each player as a separate instrument but then they had various doublings or splitting as would happen in an ensemble. However I did NOT use the general purpose instruments as Dietz said, but the trumpet ensemble, horn ensemble and trombone ensemble which I shrunk down a little for each player. Is that not kosher? It is probably a weird way of doing it. But I was thinking that they are both ensemble and solo and wasn't sure which instrument template to use since there wasn't anything specifically for Dimension Brass.

[Dietz]

@William said:

[...] However I did NOT use the general purpose instruments as Dietz said, but the trumpet ensemble, horn ensemble and trombone ensemble which I shrunk down a little for each player.  Is that not kosher? [...]

You know - if it sounds right, it is right ... but technically spoken it's not the proper way of doing it. The MIR Instrument Profiles take into account crucial parameters like the angle of the microphone during the original recording in respect to the instrument, the distance between them, the spatial frequency dispersion of a specific instrument, etc.etc. Of course, the recording setups for Dimension Brass were _very_ different from the ones that were used for the original Vienna Instruments.

Kind regards,

[William]

o.k. I'm going to re-do that which won't be hard, but if I'm using separate individual Dimension instruments should I use that "general purpose" cardioid setup and shrink it down to one-player size?  I have four separate tracks for each instrument of each ensemble.  They sometimes play the same thing, at other times play divisi.  I was panning them in MIR as if they were solo instruments even though I used the ensemble setups.  So doing this I would simply substitute the general purpose instrument and still be able to shrink them to individual solo instrument size?   thanks.

[Dietz]

Yes, exactly. Cardioid is always a good starting point for brass instruments.

Keep in mind that you will have to re-select any Character Presets you have chosen, too, as they are tailor made for almost each and every instrument. The General Purpose profiles contain just very generic settings.

[William]

 All right, thanks for that info Dietz. 

[Stephen W. Beatty]

OF COURSE Vienna Instruments Pro is able to integrate into MIR like the standard VI. There's even an option to convert existing MIR Projects to VI Pro.

So you can download VI PRO, when you install it does MIR recognize it instead of the standard VI?

Thanks,

Stephen W. Beatty 

[Karel]

When you have a VI Pro license (demo or full), VI Pro will be selectable from the instruments just like the regular VI. You can use both VI and VI Pro without problems.

[Stephen W. Beatty]

Thanks Karel

Stephen

[SyQuEsT]

I installed VI Pro and VI Standard couple days later. Maybe i'm wrong but it seems to be VI Pro only, no version choice.

Is it me ?

[Karel]

It's you ;). When you add a new MIR instrument you can choose between VI and VI Pro (or a 3rd party VSTi).

[Stephen W. Beatty]

As I work through the instructive videos, I am continually impressed by the depth of the Vienna Instruments Pro. Thank Paul S and Herb for the great audio/visuals. However, I am still wondering if the panning function or reverb function is used in VI Pro, how does this affect the icon in MIR. For example, If two patches of Violins are added to one instance and one is panned left and one right in VI Pro to reflect a von Dohnyani seating arrangement for 1st and 2nd violins, where should the icon for the instance be placed in MIR? My guess is in the center, but I am not sure.

Regards,

Stephen W. Beatty  

[Dietz]

Stephen, actually it is very simple: The MIR Icon's stereo width (shown by the outer ellipse) defines the possible 100% of left-right-panorama in any signal put on stage.

Putting a first and a second violin in the same MIR Icon doesn't seem to be a good idea for me, though ...