After finding the VSTExpression system in C5 realtively useless...switched sometimes...sometimes not...I went back to a dedicated track for keyswitches and controllers.

...but, my question is related. The new C6 VSTExpression2 system is FAR more in depth--allowing per note controller info. Of course, it requires VI level support. So, you can use their built in crap...or go back to channel based MIDI. So, it leads me to wonder, is VSTExp v2 compaitbility in the future of VI or VIP? I'm in my 30 day demo period for VIP...this is something that might tip me over to buying if it's going to be implemented in short time.

It truly seems like this VSTExp2 system is truly what MIDI 2.0 should've been...I see this as being a pretty beautiful potential win. Wondering is VSL has explored it...plans? 

 Nothing have been fixed ...[:(] I returned to Cubase 5.5.2 , which works fine...

Yes, I agree it can be quite some work to arrange a set up for the expression maps (for which an xml editor was handy). It was much work to change the dynamics setting to the new Cubase 6 set up (still not finished for all work in progress, which can take some time in my case).

Unfortunately I cannot use the Cubase 6 forum for some unexplainable reason (Steinberg does not answer my cries for help either). But, does anybody know how to make the dynamics and explression settings implemented for one track / instrument, work for other tracks, where the info is stored in what file ?

Gerard

 Dear Andi,

"- Articulation changes seem to work more stable."

They only seem , because in the facts, they bug[:S], even on 6.0.2...

 Don't know what do you mean, 'cause I'm working with Cubase VST expression and since 6.0 it works great! If something goes wrong it can be easily a misstake by yourself, the Cubase manual doesn't explain the workflow very well (and the possibilities of source of errors). You have to be very careful building up your customized expression maps. But one's correctly done it's a revolutionary (and since 6.0 a steady working) feature.   

Best

Frank

Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know of a way to keep MIDI CC going through Expression Maps to VIP? The CC01 (Modulation) mapping in many VSL matrices can't be used because the XMap filters out the CC it seems. I *could* map a keyswitch to a CC message but I'd rather keep the mod wheel control. Is this possible at all?

Thanks.

@andi said:

 I made some tests with Cubase 6/VST Expression and our collections. Here are my impressions.

...You can use a MIDI controller (CC) that's used in an Expression Map live during playback or recording. That was not possible before.
- ...

Best regards,
Andi

It would have been the answer, had it worked. On my end, I can *record* MIDI CC 01 but it doesn't get through to the VSL instrument: playback, recording, or playback *of* recording, VIP doesn't respond. I select "No Map" and everything's normal again.

I've gotten the v6 vst expression system to work much better than v5. But, it's on a faster machine, too...and I spent more time customizing. Until devs get vst3.5 compatibility, where cubase "reads" all the articulations loaded and auto assigns lanes, it will take a bunch of set up. But, mine does work quite well now. MUCH nicer than all the non harmonic keys witches. Thought I'd chime in...since this old thread got bumped. 

Could you please elaborate, popmann? The chromatic keys are working fine for me, and I'm taking the time to customize everything anyway, but I'd like to keep using MIDI CCs thru the map which doesn't seem to work for me.

I don't use cc other than what I've defined in the maps to control vip2. I don't know what you want me to elaborate on. I just saw my old post about them being useless and wanted to clarify that I'm finding them quite useful now in v6. Whether that the new machine, new OS, new cubase version, or my spending more time troubleshooting, I don't know. 

Well, from what I understand, VST Expression maps can transform any MIDI Note-on message to another note-on message, MIDI CC or Program Change, and associate an articulation to it in a controller lane. But from what I've seen, for realtime recording, the source message can only be a note-on message (the "remote key" you select as the first optional column for any articulation you define). You cannot define a CC message and ask it to activate another CC message. In other words, no CC messages are passing through the Expression Map to the instrument. They are all filtered out.

So, unless there's something I'm missing completely, while it's possible to create *articulations* that modify CC01 (as controller lanes), it doesn't seem possible to use a map and *still* send MIDI CC01 in realtime by moving the modulation wheel.

Or am I wrong?

So, are you trying to pass cc1 through to the instrument even if the vstexp map only uses say keys witches? Or if it's also using cc1 as part of its map? You certainly won't be able to use it with cc1 defined in the map, because it's effectively "chasing" whatever's in the map. It won't pass the native key switches once they're defined in the map, either. 

My usesge is to play the part with a straight legato, then turn the map on and change articulations as needed. 

OK thanks for the clearup. Not passing the native keyswitches was part of the deal of course, since that's what the interface proposes. Not passing CCs was not, but this is rather a Steinberg issue than a VSL one.

Cheers.