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  4. Problems with Kontakt 4 and MIR? There may be an easy solution!

  • Problems with Kontakt 4 and MIR? There may be an easy solution!

    DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD

    Hi all,

    recently there have been some messages on this forum from users who were experiencing strange issues when using Kontakt 4 as 3rd-party VSTi within Vienna MIR / MIR SE.

    According to a [URL=http://forum.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=23266&sid=0f46834abba867b29e72f085b95e9558] recent discussion in the Nuendo forum, [/URL] the culprit could be a setting in Kontakt's preferences interfering with tasks which are already accomplished by the host: Multiprocessor support should be disabled in Kontakt. It is meant to be used when Kontakt is working in standalone mode.

    You'll find it in Kontakt's "Options > Engine > Multiprocessor support (VST - Plugin)" menu. Choose "Off" from the pull-down.

    The VST host in our case is Vienna MIR / SE, of course, but the same should be true when using Vienna Ensemble / Pro.

    HTH,

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • D
    D

     Thanks a lot for posting this, Dietz! Did it try out immediatly - unfortunetaly no success. Same procedure as every time. Crash on save at 4 - 5 time.[:(]

    B u t  :  I think this track is right. I noticed in the ressources-monitor of my system  some "parking" cores. Looked at there, cause yesterday I have found in vi- control forum in this thread  http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18397 this link

    http://ultimatecomputers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3644 .

    So I will give it a try next time, if it succeeds myself to find this long numerical series in the registry. [:^)]

    I will give a feedback after trying, will be wednesday at the earliest, cause I'm quite busy right now.

    Hope it's ok to post the links here?

    And thanks again for taking care of. 

    Kind regards

    Frank
  • D
    D

     Hi again,

    did find a bit time today already and changed the described settings above in the registry of my machine. 

    I noticed a slightly better performance (it was really good before too) but the odd behavior of Kontakt did'nt change.

    Changes of multi-processor support inside Kontakt off or 2 threads makes no different on my system - a slightly decrease in performance (cpu usage 2-5% more) .

    Everything else - what a pity - persists, so

    1. double load of protected Kontakt 3rd part librarys (not happens with unprotected sample-lib)

    2. message "could not load plugin" (workaround: load a VI or VI Pro instance at least in your template; compare to this thread about VE PRO http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/26742.aspx and  http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/25508.aspx)

    3. Some Kontakt instances with 3rd part librarys don't fully load in a reloaded MIR - Projekt. (compare to here: http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/26743.aspx

    4. Reloaded MIR - Projekts with Kontakt instances - always crashs on 4rd save at the latest (never 1st, mostly 2nd time). 

    The good news is: You don't have to save so much with MIR (and  I   n e v e r   experienced any crash at rendering) - cause mixing with this engine is more than easy. And reload-times are very fast nowadays...So what?[:)]

    Nevertheless I would like to drink a fewer couple of coffee sometimes... So any new ideas much appreciated!

    And even though thanks for the good idea, Dietz. It was worth a try!

    Kind regards

    Frank
  • P
    P

    doubleattack

    I really get all the SAME errors you get. So I think we deserve a fix for that :-)

    Let's wait and see what we get.
  • K
    K

    Could any of you give me the full and exact text of the "Could not load plugin" messagebox? We haven't been able to reproduce this here.
  • D
    D

    AFAIK that is the full extent of the message, which I got again this morning.  [:(]

    DG
  • P
    P

    I just had this error. It's quite random.

    The message box is saying: "Missing plugins" (as title of the windows)
    And then in the small windows "Could not load plugin:"
    And an OK button.

    That's all.

    I had this problem even with WIVI (from wallander instruments), so I suppose it's a generical 64-bit plugin error.

    My system is Windows 7 64-bit, 18 GB ram, Core I7 2,66. I own MIR SE.

    Anyway it keeps on chrashing on saving (but I don't try to load the project that MIR tryied to save before chrashing)
  • P
    P

    Oh, it appears to be on the 6th instance of Kontakt loaded. So try to load a lot of Kontakt instances. 
    Oh we have forgot to say, that this error appears when loading an existing Vienna MIR project with Kontakt instances (but I suppose it's not limited to Kontakt only)

    :-) 

    Oh! Workaround for sample not loaded: on the high purge button press unload all samples, then reload all samples and save MIR project. Next time you open all samples will be loaded :-)
  • D
    D
    last edited
    last edited

    @paoling said:

    Oh, it appears to be on the 6th instance of Kontakt loaded. So try to load a lot of Kontakt instances. 
    Oh we have forgot to say, that this error appears when loading an existing Vienna MIR project with Kontakt instances (but I suppose it's not limited to Kontakt only)

     

    Aha..... It is my 6th instance of Kontakt that is not loading. Maybe you're on to something.

    DG
  • D
    D

    I'm quite happy - I'm not the only one! 

    It's a pity that it's not reliable reproducible (I have the issue with only 4 Kontakt instances too; only different is the behavior of protected and unprotected librarys. Beside vsl wws I use for second or third woodwinds or 3./4. french-horn westgatestudios-ww which is unprotect.)   

    Thats why I assumed it has to do with the protection systems. And honestly: vsl daemon and the new vsl protection, protection for Kontakt itself and two different protection systems for third part libs inside Kontakt ("The Trumpet" for example you can find under programms, others need only the nkx.file in the sample folder)  and Steinberg protection for HSO (one instance) but I need this one - much protection, but to me it feels more unsecurely, not to say more dangerous. Not to contemplate the fast-paced computertechnology...

    Last time, when I was changing from Hyperthreading disabled to enabled, I have had to activate again all Kontakt librarys! The technician of Kontakt support sayed: No worry, the new 6 virtual cores are like a new CPU even like a new machine, so it's normal! What???

    I'm not a technician, I don't have the vaguest notion of all this stuff, but  it sounds at least as complicated as the score of "sacre".     

    Ok. The work arounds make it possible to work - as paoling wrote.

    But I appreciate all hints and help, cause in the long run it is irksome. 

    I have contacted the technic support of Kontakt some times ago too. Unfortunately the technician who's answered me didn't have any experience with MIR - he didn't really know it, he never worked with it!  [:^)]

    I noticed in vi-control forum too, that not much of the composers there are working with MIR yet. (Despite of the little teething troubles: They don't know, what they are slip.)  But therefore it will not be so easy to find the reason and a solution for the issues, I'm afraid so.

    Assuming the issues are in connection with systems, for comparing my specs down here.  Thanks so much for replys and hints for workaround.

    Kind regards

    Frank
  • P
    P

    Any news about that? Because, with this problems I can't rely on my MIR SE, as a complete hosting solution and I'm forced to leave it apart and work with other less realistic solutions...
    Thank you, in advance. 
  • D
    D

     Paoling, as Karel say, they can't reproduce it. So I assumed it depends of using system and potentially the used Librarys in Kontakt.

    So can you give a message what system do you use and which Librarys of Kontakt? (btw I use LASS, BBB, Abbey Road 60 Drums, Kontakt Lib itself and westgate studios ww, which is unprotected)

    @ DG, I want ask you, do you have also crashs on save or only the "could not load plugin" message-box? Cause your motherbord was different than my, so maybe there lies some reason. And did you experienced, that protected Library was double loaded? (That means, you can see the Kontakt loading-window two times loading the same samples - the template looks normal thereafter, except that some instances was not fully loaded and you have to purge and reload all samples.)

    @paoling

    I don't want to give up to work with MIR. (and paoling I don't think you will really stop to work with it, do you? I noticed your excited report about MIR in vi-control forum). The mixing result and the handling of mixing is saving so much time for me, so the profit is much higher than the costs. I'm very forbearing. Maybe cause I didn't grow up with computers. Maybe cause I'd  been working for 15 years on Atari with Notator SL. And with this ludicrously "computer" sometimes you got problems - with dongle=protection systems. (But in this times it was a mechanical issue.) Times have changed completly. The complexity increases every day. And the idea of decompose the real world and recompose a new one is a renaissance of the idea of baroque, but with nouveau astronomical possibilitys and dimensions - they are not to get for free. So ceep calm. Time is made to unveil. Let's have a look carefully on the details. 

    Kind regards

    Frank   
  • P
    P

    Well.. In the vi-control forum there's a user who posted some Altiverb examples that, in my opinon, were fully comparable to my MIR tests. I know that MIR it's a saving solution to mix and so; but how can I realiably work if it won't open my last plugins? For me it's not a matter of protected of non protected libraries, since MIR gives problems even with WIVI. About my problems with WIVI Dietz told me that he don't have WIVI so he couldn't help me. But I think that when there's a problem with two softwares, both the developers should work together in order to let their software function properly.
    Since this is a common problem and we proved it a bit, we need a solution for that. 

    And, sincerely, MIR and its little brother MIR SE are not given to us for FREE and since I'm planning to work with this software, I need a solution. Old times of Atari and trackers are gone, fortunately, but this is not a reason not to get what we paid for.

    I'm currently using Kontakt sounds, with some Tonehammer libraries, some older libraries, old EWQLSO wet samples, and I'm planning to buy LASS.. But in my opinion it doesn't depends by unprotected or protected libraries; since the plugin won't load before trying to load samples. And I have the same problem with WIVI.
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD
    last edited
    last edited

    Paoling,

    rest assured that we are aware of the issue. Please understand that it is not easy to fix a problem that most likely is a result of _several_ factors playing together in a unique way, especially as we were not able to reproduce it here until now.

    Thanks for your patience.

    PS:

    @Another User said:

    In the vi-control forum there's a user who posted some Altiverb examples that, in my opinon, were fully comparable to my MIR tests.

    No doubt about that. AltiVerb is a great plugin - for single reverbs. For comparison: Stills from a movie will always look the same as a photograph - but I think we agree upon the fact that a movie is more than just one still (or two) 😉

    Kind regards,

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • D
    D

     OK, prepare for the drum roll. For the last 2 days I've not had a single "Unable to load plugin" message. My "fix":

    Create an empty Kontakt instance at the end of the project. Done.

    DG
  • D
    D

    Hi all,

    thanks for the replies. I want to try again the thinks to put in order.

    The solution for the "could not load plugin" message was known before - so sorry DG, this drum roll was to late.[;)]

    I assumed the issue has to do with protection systems. To be clear - only the odd behavior of some (protected) Kontakt-librarys - they will double loaded on every reloaded MIR projekt was giving a hint to this assumption. It doesn't happen so with unprotected libs.

    The double loading increases the load time only - so it is not really a big problem. 

    But it   c o u l d   to be responsible for the issue, that some instances will not be fully loaded. (Solution is purge and reload.) 

    The underlying issue are the crashs on save of reloaded MIR projekts.

    Could be too, that one thing has nothing to do with others. 

    It seems the issues depends of used system.

    So my question for Dietz and/or Karel: Do you try to reproduce the issues on different systems?

    As I wrote some time ago, in Cubase on same system I don't experience none of this issues.

    So, my vsl-certified workstation should has been not the wrong way to go for MIR.

    @paoling

    Don't have WIVI Instruments there own positioning/room-software? I don't own WIVI, but I remember on there web-side was a

    special interface. So I don't know, maybe it is better with WIVI than to go this way...Thanks for your reply again.

    Kind regards

    Frank
  • D
    D

    The reason I call it a solution, is that so far I don't have to do anything else,apart from the dummy instance of Kontakt. I have VI Pro and Kontakt 4.1 in the project and all plugins and samples are loaded correctly every time.

    FWIW I currently have 116 Instruments in this template.

    DG
  • D
    D

     Yes, the size of a template makes no difference. Btw, I can use for the dummy instance everything else.
  • P
    P

    Hi doubleattack, the room emulation of WIVI is in my opinion not comparable to MIR. Moreover, if I want all the instruments to be convincing in the same room, I think I should play with dry and wet parameters in MIR.

    The workaround works even for me. I noticed that the not fully loaded kontakt instances are almost a "feature" of kontakt. They load only the samples that are played by the project, the other are put off to sleep. When you play a note for the first time, it will be loaded by the instance and the second time it will be played; this is a way to save RAM, but I'd like to have the choice to use that or not. 
  • D
    D

    OK, just got the "could not load" again. I guess it means that I have to take Kontakt out of MIR. Which sort of defeats the point. Back to VE Pro? [:(]

    DG