Hi Dietz

@Dietz said:

 I can't give you serious estimations on how good an i7-based Mac will behave once Vienna MIR is ready for OSX (... or should I say OSX is ready for MIR ...? 8-] ...).

Can you explain this ?

Thanks

Cyril

Hi Dietz

Thanks for your answer.

You are waiting for Snow Leopard to release MIR and VI/VE 64 bit on Mac [:)]

Best

Cyril

Not really, Leopard supports 64-bit applications just fine. Snow Leopard will only bring more 64-bit userland apps with the OS, afaik.

How about the new AMD PhenomII for MIR. The processing power looks quite similiar to the i7s, therefore the price tag for a complete system is way cheaper.

see link below

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/amdunlock.hmx

sorry to say that, but the i7 is unbeatable ... and it is not only the processor, we need the fast memory bus too.

of course you might get *somewhere* with AMDs, XEON 5000, core2quads but i can't tell you currently _how_ far.

AFAIS those phenom boards hold 8 GB DDR2 - certainly not enough.

christian

Martin,

I'm confused....  If Leopard currently supports 64 bit application, then why isn't VI & VE for OS X 64 bit capable?  Also what are userland apps?

Hi Dietz,

Will I need to purchase an i7 based computer to run MIR or will it work fine on my MacPro 8-core with 16GB?  Also if so, will I be able to run MIR on the same machine as my sequencer (Logic 8 & Cubase 5) or will I need to make one a slave?  I'm trying to plan for the future in hardware requirements but do not want to over purchase if it is not necessary.  I would prefer to run everything on a single machine if possible but need to understand my options.  Appreciate your input......

 MIR will be available for windows vista and windows 7 in a first run (both have to be 64bit because of the amount of memory needed to be accessed), OS X might follow later.

so you could run windows via bootcamp on your MacPro and within windows MIR, but be aware the *old* intel 5000 XEONS have slow memory bus speed (at least compared to i7 processors)

if an audio host and MIR run simultaneously on the same machine will depend mainly on your soundcard drivers.

to step in regarding userland question: you probably know that GUI is not 64bit on leopard and VI/VE runs in  memory space for user's applications - this makes it a little bit complicated to access more than 4 GB memory with an application needing a user interface. however a solution is under development.

christian

Leopard does support 64-bit applications completely. The reason for VI/VE not being 64-bit yet (well, not released...), is that we have several other dependencies besides the OS itself. As should be relatively well known by now, Apple pulled alot of developers legs when they announced that the Carbon framework (gui parts) would not support 64-bit, having people move to Cocoa completely for future mac gui development.

A userland application would be anything you normally refer to as an "application", that runs outside the kernel.

Thanks for the clarification Martin. Am I correct is saying that if VE & VI were developed using Cocoa for the gui development that both VE & VI would be full blown 64 bit apps able to access all the memory that is available on the Intel 64 bit Mac?  The reason I am asking is that the the VSL web page states that 64 bit would be available "soon" and has stated that ever since the first release of Ensemble.  That's been over a year.  I wasn't sure if the VSL development team was waiting for Snow Leopard to be released or if VI and VE could be released as pure 64-bit apps now in the Leopard environment.  My personal biggest frustration with VSL is I'm just not being able to utilize the 16GB I have on board and don't really want to have to load Windows in order to do so.  Processor and sound card driver restraints just aren't present.  Are you guys close to releasing a 64 bit version of VI & VE?

Hi Christian,

From your response, it sound like running MIR on my existing MacPro which has the intel Xeon Processor using Bootcamp may not be a wise choice if I also plan on sequencing off the same machine.  Am I understanding you correctly to say that my MacPro would run MIR (full orchestra) via Bootcamp/Windows providing I use another computer to sequence with?  To say it differently, how many instruments would I be able to run in MIR using my existing MacPro and a different computer to sequence with?  Would I be able to sequence the entire orchestra or would I require multiple slaves? 

I don't know if I have the Intel 5000 series.  My computer stats show that I have a 2 x 3 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon.  Are we talking the same thing?

@Chuck Green said:

Hi Christian,

From your response, it sound like running MIR on my existing MacPro which has the intel Xeon Processor using Bootcamp may not be a wise choice if I also plan on sequencing off the same machine.  Am I understanding you correctly to say that my MacPro would run MIR (full orchestra) via Bootcamp/Windows providing I use another computer to sequence with?  To say it differently, how many instruments would I be able to run in MIR using my existing MacPro and a different computer to sequence with?  Would I be able to sequence the entire orchestra or would I require multiple slaves? 

I don't know if I have the Intel 5000 series.  My computer stats show that I have a 2 x 3 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon.  Are we talking the same thing?

Thanks DG...

Yes I have an older MacPro.   I knew I was vague when I said full orchestra but you understood what I was getting at.  The reason for my question (full orchestra) was that the video demo of VE showed two instances of VE on the slave and one on the main computer running a full orchestral arrangement.  I'm assuming due to the increase power of the i7 that the same arrangement used in the video would ALL run on a single slave within MIR.

@Chuck Green said:

Am I correct is saying that if VE & VI were developed using Cocoa for the gui development that both VE & VI would be full blown 64 bit apps able to access all the memory that is available on the Intel 64 bit Mac?  The reason I am asking is that the the VSL web page states that 64 bit would be available "soon" and has stated that ever since the first release of Ensemble.  That's been over a year.  I wasn't sure if the VSL development team was waiting for Snow Leopard to be released or if VI and VE could be released as pure 64-bit apps now in the Leopard environment.  My personal biggest frustration with VSL is I'm just not being able to utilize the 16GB I have on board and don't really want to have to load Windows in order to do so.  Processor and sound card driver restraints just aren't present. Are you guys close to releasing a 64 bit version of VI & VE?

As I mentioned in my previous post, we have other dependencies beyond the OS itself, which have caused the delay in 64-bit for mac. There are however no constraints imposed on us by Leopard - it is 64-bit capable all the way.

Unfortunately, I cannot give you any date when the 64-bit mac versions (VI,VE,VEP,VS,VIP) are ready for release, but I can tell so much that they are at least running fine on my machine 😊

@Chuck Green said:

Hi Christian,

From your response, it sound like running MIR on my existing MacPro which has the intel Xeon Processor using Bootcamp may not be a wise choice if I also plan on sequencing off the same machine.  Am I understanding you correctly to say that my MacPro would run MIR (full orchestra) via Bootcamp/Windows providing I use another computer to sequence with?  To say it differently, how many instruments would I be able to run in MIR using my existing MacPro and a different computer to sequence with?  Would I be able to sequence the entire orchestra or would I require multiple slaves? 

I don't know if I have the Intel 5000 series.  My computer stats show that I have a 2 x 3 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon.  Are we talking the same thing?

I have been waiting for MIR quite a long time, but this has really put me off. I still can't figure out how I can run a terribly HUGE orchestral template like the ones I like to work with, included with at least 3 to 5 fx inserted on each track, and at the same time run MIR(another monster). Right now, I have two workstations exclusively for Vienna instruments. Between them, a 16GB orchestral template runs smoothly, including fx processing, as already mentioned(all through VE3). 7 altiverbs run on another machine. I was hoping that MIR could have a workstation for its own, and perhaps stream all the required data through lan, just like VE3. Well, I still haven't given up on MIR premium though.(Since it will be able to host 3rd party plugins, and other audio signals, well, who knows). fingers crossed

Thanks for the reply Martin.  I guess at this point I can only hope that the release is soon (like days/weeks).  My 3-year warranty will run out on my machine before I'm able to utilize it to it's full potential using VI (which is why I bought the machine to begin with).....

@hose said:

I have been waiting for MIR quite a long time, but this has really put me off. I still can't figure out how I can run a terribly HUGE orchestral template like the ones I like to work with, included with at least 3 to 5 fx inserted on each track, and at the same time run MIR(another monster). Right now, I have two workstations exclusively for Vienna instruments. Between them, a 16GB orchestral template runs smoothly, including fx processing, as already mentioned(all through VE3). 7 altiverbs run on another machine. I was hoping that MIR could have a workstation for its own, and perhaps stream all the required data through lan, just like VE3. Well, I still haven't given up on MIR premium though.(Since it will be able to host 3rd party plugins, and other audio signals, well, who knows). fingers crossed

@hose said:

I have been waiting for MIR quite a long time, but this has really put me off. I still can't figure out how I can run a terribly HUGE orchestral template like the ones I like to work with, included with at least 3 to 5 fx inserted on each track, and at the same time run MIR(another monster). Right now, I have two workstations exclusively for Vienna instruments. Between them, a 16GB orchestral template runs smoothly, including fx processing, as already mentioned(all through VE3). 7 altiverbs run on another machine. I was hoping that MIR could have a workstation for its own, and perhaps stream all the required data through lan, just like VE3. Well, I still haven't given up on MIR premium though.(Since it will be able to host 3rd party plugins, and other audio signals, well, who knows). fingers crossed

Hi DG. Actually, I don't have Altiverb on each channel. I run 7 Altiverbs on another machine rather than the VSL machines. On the VSL machines, I use Vienna Suite on each INSTRUMENT. Usually its EQ, compression, sometimes exciter, and of course the panner. If for instance I am playing double stops, I will have a double on the same instrument, grouped into a bus, and I will run the fx on the bus ofcourse. The VSL machine's CPU is very comfortable. I think it never reaches 20%, but I am using a LOT of ram between the two VSL machines. And MIR is hungry for both RAM and CPU. Therefore, if I purchase an i7 with 12 GB ram, load a mir hall, that instantly eats up around 8GB of ram, and who know regarding CPU power, whats left for massive template?