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  • VSl Sib percussion

    Seriously tedious question....

    Does anyone know which marking on Sibelius will trigger the triangle roll sample rather than sibelius making a rather unpleasant attempt using the single hit sample many times in quick succession?

    thanks

    Steve


  • Hi Steve!

    For drum and some percussion rolls you need an entry in the dictionary. You can choose any keyword you like.

    Go to Play/Dictionary/Staff Text. Create a new keyword (for example roll) and make the following settings:
    Effect: Sound ID Change
    Sound ID: +roll (This has to be "+roll" and does not have to be identical with your keyword)
    Until start of next note

    Best,
    Andi


    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Andi

    You really are a fount of knowledge!

    Is there anywhere where all these little things are written down? It would save me bothering you on semi regular basis!

    Thanks so much for your help

    Steve


  • Hi Steve!

    A general introduction (as you probably know) can be found in our video tutorial:

    http://vsl.co.at/en/211/1343/1348/243.vsl

    The most important things are written in the pdf manual you find here:
    http://vsl.co.at/en/68/375/377/239.htm

    Some additional information for the sound sets can be found in the readme files that come with them.

    There is no manual with special tricks for optimisation yet. But I'm planning to do that, when there is time. By the way. Most of these things have already been posted here on the forum.

    Best,
    Andi


    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Andi

    Yep I have read all that.

    I also searched for the triangle roll question but to no avail.

    I just assumed from the set up video etc that I didn't need to put in extra things in the playback dictionary for the SE

    Sorry if I have been taking advantage of your time

    Steve  


  • Is this different for Tam Tam? I tried it, and it doesn't seem to work.

  • Hello phsupertonic!

    Do you mean the rolls on Tam Tam do not work for you?
    It should work as written in my first reply on this thread. Be aware that you need a Tam-tam staff for it and a channel and program reserved on the Manual Sound Sets page, as well as in Vienna Ensemble.

    Let me take this opportunity and clarify the drum and percussion rolls for the Special Edition (and SE PLUS) sound set .

    Drum rolls: There are three ways to trigger these rolls:
    1.) Choose the tremolo articulation symbol with 4 or 5 lines crossing the stem or the buzz roll symbol. Advanced users can edit the Sibelius instruments to make it work also with 3 lines crossing the stem. (House Style/Edit Instruments/Edit Instrument/Edit Staff Type/New/Articulation: 8tremolos/Choose Sound: ….roll)
    2.) Make an entry in the dictionary. (This also works for triangle, castanets and tam tam.) You can choose any keyword you like.
    Go to Play/Dictionary/Staff Text. Create a new keyword (for example roll) and make the following settings: Effect: Sound ID Change “+roll” (This has to be "+roll" and does not have to be identical with your keyword) Until next sound ID change. To switch back to single hits use one of the following commands: "ord." or "normal"

    Best,
    Andi


    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Hello again Andi! As far as I can tell, I have followed all your directions as closely as possible, and it still triggers the regular sample repeatedly instead of the rolling sample. I have a dedicated Tam-Tam line. I even tried recreating it, and copying and pasting all the notes to the new line. The four- or five-line tremolos just triggered fast repetitions of the normal sample. The Dictionary entry is there too: roll with "+roll" until the start of the next note. I did notice that "+roll" was not originally in the drop-down menu where you would normally select the sound ID change, so I had to type it in manually. I'm quite certain I have all the correct and most up-to-date sound sets and everything. I will continue fussing with it, but let me know if you have any more ideas. Thanks!

  • In order to assign the "....roll" Sound ID to your Tam Tam, please use the keyword you created. This means write "roll" above the note to trigger the roll.


    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Thanks. Unfortunately, I already tried that, with and without five-line tremolos, and it still triggers the regular sample.

  • Ok, I guess I found out what's the problem. If notes are tied, on the second note the single hit gets triggered. To avoid this change the roll entry in the dictionary to "Until next Sound ID change". To switch back to single hits use one of the following commands: "ord." or "normal"

    I also recommend unchecking "Case sensitive" if you haven't done so.

    Sorry for the confusion.
    Andi


    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Hmm... Nope, still not working. I went back and reviewed EVERYTHING that's been said so far, very carefully, to make sure I didn't miss anything. The good news is that I have a timpani in the same score, and rolls DO work on it, if I use the five-line tremolo, but not if I use the "roll" keyword. And the Tam Tam still does NOT work with the five-line tremolo OR the "roll" keyword, despite the suggestions made. Sorry to disappoint you.

  • If you also want to use the timpani roll with 3 or 4 tremolo-lines, do as written in a previous post.

    Don't use the tremolo-lines with the tamtam. The keyword roll should do the trick. I don't know what to say more. It works on my machine.

    Andi


    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Ok, well thanks for trying. I will post the reason for my problem here, if/when I discover it.

  • Just thought I'd say that I've just recreated what you 've been trying and it seems fine. ie my tam-tam "rolls" with both the technique command "roll" and with the 3 line trem (16th) having predefined both in the playback dictionary.

    Steve

    PS Andy your solution for crossfading for snare etc which you gave me a few days ago and a couple of threads down  didn't work!


  • Sorry Steve!


    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Andy

    Do you think that might be a possible update? I'm sure many people use SE with Sibelius (it's "almost " custom made for it) and to have individual perc instruments to work like the timps ie left hand right hand samples (which are something else not triggered by sibelius currently right?) and rolls which go through the velocity layers would be really great

    I'm sure VSL has 101 other things to take care of but this would be really useful!

    Steve     


  • Hi Steve!

    This is a limitation from Sibelius. There is nothing we can do about it. However, there is a workaround for you. [;)]

    Use CC11 MIDI commands (first enable Velocity X-Fade in the Vienna Instrument as described in an other thread). These MIDI-commands look like this:
    ~C11,0 (for silent)
    ~C11,127 (for loudest)
    There is a Sibelius plugin to create these messages (Plug-ins/Playback/Cresc./Dim. Playback/Use C11) for hairpins, so you only have to type in MIDI values for immediate dynamic changes, but not for the hairpins. 

    By the way: We recorded dynamic drum rolls. They are not included in the Special Edition though, but in the Percussion library.

    It's also possible to trigger left and right hand timpani samples. The easiest way is as follows: Set A/B Select to CC1. Now use MIDI commands as described above:
    ~C1,0 will trigger left hand samples.
    ~C1,127 will trigger right hand samples.

    Best,
    Andi


    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Andy

    That's great, but I use my system  to compose so that a real orch will play later - I have no interest in putting midi commands in all over the place.

    If I wanted to mock up like that I would use a sequencer.

    It's just a shame, as I said before, that there can't be a snare, bass and tam tam separate instrument so it'll just all happen from the standard score notation liek the timps and all the other instruments!

    But thanks for your help again in any case.

    Steve


  • You can also record the MIDI messages, if you don't want to type them in. This would be no difference to a sequencer. Either you type it in, or you record it.

    If you want separate instruments for every percussion instrument, get our Percussion library. ;-)

    As for the timpani. I updated the Special Edition and Special Edition PLUS sound set. You can find it in the User Area under DVD Products/Needful Things. Now you can trigger left hand samples with the Technique Text "L" (they are also triggered by default) and right hand samples with the Technique Text "R". This works for drums and for timpani.

    Andi


    Vienna Symphonic Library