Keyswitch to a sustain patch for the long notes.
DG
189,752 users have contributed to 42,672 threads and 256,824 posts.
In the past 24 hours, we have 4 new thread(s), 10 new post(s) and 52 new user(s).
@Nordkrog said:
Sorry if this has been covered all ready. I searched the forum but didn't find any topics... I'm currently writing for string quartet and is really frustrated about the legato patches. When 2 o more notes are played legato, the notes cut off very quickly. Instead of changing bow direction,the note simply stops..... Thanks, Flemming
Hello Flemming:
About the Legato-Articulation: Take for example the note D. The Vienna Instrument contains from D to each note (+/- an octave) the legato crossing sample. When you are going to change from D to G the VI selects the corresponding legato sample (key-noise etc.) and playes it in the right moment. Think now you are the VI. Play the chord CEG and move then to FAC. It would be impossible for the VI to decide from which note it should change to another in this case.
So the VI can only play 1 note with legato samples - it is monophone.
Solution:
Split up the voices and open for each voice a new VI. That's no problem because...
Even if you load the same articulation more than one time it only needs the RAM space for one.
Perhaps you think, that you can use the VI with the Violin Samples for violin 1 and violin 2 of your quartet.
This won't work - open a VI for each violin.
If you want to know some thing more about the secrets of the Vienna Instrument:
Feel free to browse around in my VI-Tutorials
I wish a lot of success
Beat Kaufmann
@Nordkrog said:
Thanks, yes this is what I do, but then I miss the "legato sound" off the attack + it's a less simple workflow. I also use a trombone-patch at the moment, and here I can use a legato+sus patch.
If you think the sound of the legato sus is good, then you can do the same with legato strings by putting the sus sample in the cell and then cell xFading immediately the transition has been played, just as the trombone does automatically.
Regarding the attack, the recorded one is a slurred attack. If the 2nd of your two notes is long, then this wouldn't have been slurred anyway, so the attack you want to hear may not happen in the real world anyway, so by using a sus, you are not necessarily missing anything.
I don't think that the legato sus patches work in an up-close setting, but for an orchestral trombone sitting at the back of the orchestra, you can get away with it.
DGIt's very simple; the patches cut out, because that's the length that they were recorded. The "attack" you hear when releasing the note is the release sample. If the note dies out to the length that you want, then switch the release sample off. If the note is too short, then use or xFade to a sustain. It is not a bug. It is the way that the software is designed. Whether or not this is a good thing is open to interpretation though. [:)]
If you are not worried about realism then just use the sustain patches (maybe even with fast attack, if these exist) and then these issues won't slow you down when you're working.
DG
It has been a feature request for many years to have all the legato notes for all instruments looped, so that you wouldn't have to worry about long notes jsut stopping. Unfortunately there have been other priorities up until now. There are many enhancements that should be made to the VI player, but I would imagine that until there are ways of making some of these things automatic, they will not be included.
DGI can't solve your situation/problem better than DG tried to do it. So the instruments react as the do.
If you want to get a "sample result" as close as possible to the reality you should change the
articulations very often. So why not - as DG recommended - changing from legato to sustained
for the final long note? If necessary: Take the legato for crossing the note but fade then with
the X-fade function from the legato- to the sustain- articulation for the final length.
When string players play very long tones they often have the problem of a "too short bow".
The results are therefore quite often diminuendos instead of sustained notes.Try it out.
The VSL-diminuendos are very nice because most of them are starting with a sort of "belly".
The work with samples is a "continuous being ready to compromise". If something doesn't work
try with all your possibilities until you get the result (or as close as) you want to reach.
This takes a lot of time and - of course - you should know your sample library and its possibilities
very well. As an example for this:
http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/vitipstricks2/index.php#0439199ae0080e004
BTW: It isn't a good idea to switch of the release sample. Most of the articulations will stop
the very unnatural - such as legato, sustain, ...
Have a nice sunday
Beat
@Nordkrog said:
... Come on, copy that idea to all the other instruments... Please please please š š Flemming
Dear Flemming
See this legato matter in the light of history. The Violin Sample Library is one of the early days of VSL. It was recorded to use together with the Performance Tool. Even if Herb developed a super tool at that time, he was still collecting experiences.
So the legato samples - which are a huge number of single samples - got not that optimized finish as today.
By the way: This " a bit short second note after legato" exists since this library (and others)exist.
The library was later transformed into the new VI. Perhaps Herb should have new and longer legato samples - but, he hadn't them. Further I know that it takes a lot of time to assign and connect (program) all these legato snippets with the notes befor and after. Herb showed me this work - when I was once in Vienna.
So I can't believe that he will do this job again for the mature lady "solo violin". Nevertheless, it is still one of the best and usefull libraries which ever was recorded. And as DG mentioned: There are ways to solve the problem - even if it is a fiddly thing
sometimes...
To make it short: I don't believe in a patch. But I'm sure that the coming up "solo violin II" will contain the legatos as you wish to have them...[:)]
I hardly know which way to turn for you now?
- Giving up?
- Alcohol?
- Walking in the forest?
- Using Midi Sounds again?
- Painting a picture instead of composing a piece of music
- Giving a party
- Chopping wood
Best
Beat
> Alcohol [6]
@Nordkrog said:
Hehe... yep, can't wait to give you more of my money once Solo violin II shows up... hehe... Thanks for all your kind advices. I'm sure alcohol will work... I had the impression that the solo string legato patches already used the sustained notes, since if you only play 1 long note, without any preceding "slurred" notes, you do get a "as long as you hold it"-note. So I was thinking - how hard can it be to automate a crossfade between the legato and the sustained note? Isn't this what's going on in the trombone legato+sus patch? š Flemming
OK, you need to understand the difference between start notes and legato notes.
So you can see that you are talking about the length of two similar notes which use different samples.
As to the legato+sus issue, I don't think it would be that difficult to automate as it does in the trombone patches. Maybe if you approach VSL and offer to pay for all the many, many hours of editing to make this possible, they would do it for you. I don't know. However, before you go this route just think about how many samples have to be re-edited and mapped. Thousands, I would imagine. This will not be cheap. [;)]
DG
I thought I payed for this already. I remember in the old discussions about "never pay twice for a sample" when the VI was released, that one of the the arguments from VSL was something like all this re-programming costs! Well, I go on drinking some alcohol and chopping some wood as Beat proposed... that sure will solve the problem... š Flemming@DG said:
Maybe if you approach VSL and offer to pay for all the many, many hours of editing to make this possible, they would do it for you. I don't know. However, before you go this route just think about how many samples have to be re-edited and mapped. Thousands, I would imagine. This will not be cheap.
DG