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  • Vienna Ensemble 3------XP64------32GB RAM------426,544 samples loaded

    The last days I've prepared a full orchestra setup on my new 64 Bit computer, holding 32 GB Ram.

    It's the first time we could test a system with so much RAM and here are my results:

    I've prepared a setup with 

    - 52 instruments,

    - 426,544 samples loaded,

    - 4 "Vienna-Ensemble 3" network instances,

    - 19 stereo audio outputs directly routed via ethernet  back into my sequenzer.

    The Vienna Ensemble network uses ethernet to connect midi and audio between two or more computers.

    That means you won't need any midi and audio soft and hardware to connect slave computers to your sequenzer computer.

    And you can connect OSX, XP, Vista systems without any problems.

    In my case I've connected a 32 XP system running Cubase 4 with my new dedicated Sample computer, an XP 64 system.

    Vienna ensemble uses 30 GB of Ram for this 426,544 samples, (ca 450.000 samples could be loaded on my system).

    First Vienna Ensemble instance is dedicated to the strings

    1) Orchestral violins I...........28,897 samples

    2) Orchestral violons II.........(2nd instance)

    3) Orchestral violas..............20,481 samples

    4) Orchestral cellos.............20,256 samples

    5) Orchestral basses...........12, 275 samples

    6) Appassionata violins I......15,985 samples

    7) Appassionata violins II.....(2nd instance)

    8) Appassionata violas........12.662 samples

    9) Appassionata cellos........14,069 samples

    10) Appassionata basses.....1,919 samples

    2nd Vienna Ensemble instance - Woodwinds

    1) Piccolo........................5,482 samples

    2) Flute I........................11,836 samples

    3) Flute II.........................9,372 samples

    4) Flute ensemble............6,155 samples

    5) Oboe I (french).............9,017 samples

    6) Oboe II (vienna)............9,271 samples

    7) Oboe ensemble...........4,461 samples

    8) English horn................8,645 samples

    9) Clarinet Bb I...............18,959 samples

    10) Clarinet Bb II.............(2nd instance)

    11) Clarninet ensemble.....6,906 samples

    12) Bass clarinet.............12,154 samples

    13) Bassoon I..................14,116 samples

    14) Bassoon II...................(2nd instance)

    15) Bassoon ensemble.....:6,371 samples

    16 Contra bassoon............8,913 samples

    3rd Vienna Ensemble - Brass

    1) Horn I (triple)...............11,434 samples

    2) Horn II (triple)...............(2nd instance)

    3) Horn III (vienna).............14,794 samples

    4) Horn IV (vienna)............(2nd instance)

    5) Horn ensemble (4)........12,584 samples

    6) Horn ensemble (8)..........5,032 samples

    7) Trumpet I.....................21,631 samples

    8) Trumpet II....................(2nd instance)

    9) Trumpet III....................(3rd instance)

    10) Trumpet ensemble (3)...15,480 samples

    11) Trumpet ensemble (6).....5,592 samples

    12) Tenor trombone I..........22,579 samples

    13) Tenor trombone II.........(2nd instance)

    14) Bass trombone.............10,080 samples

    15) Trombone ensemble......14.876 samples 

    16) Tuba.............................9,179 samples

    4th Vienna Ensemble instance - Harps, Keyboards & Percussion

    1) Harp I..................5,710 samples

    2) Harp II.................1,762 samples

    3) Bösendorfer.........4,622 samples

    4) Celesta..................432 samples

    5) Glockenspiel.......2.299 samples

    6) Xylophone...........3,819 samples

    7) Timpani..............5,117 samples

    8) Drums................5.581 samples

    9) Bass drums...........654 samples

    10) Piatti...................104 samples

    For a performance test I've prepared a sequence all instruments performing unisono.

    All ensemble instruments with crossfade active,

    all winds and strings runninmg a performance legato pTCH.

    So ca 200 voices are performing unisono, with a CPU usage between 25 and 30 %.

    Via ethernet I've routed 19 stereo track into my sequenzer:

    Big kudos to our programming team.

    No glitches and blue screens the last three days doing this setup and testing,

    For me it's a historical day because it's the first time I could load and work with the full VSL power on one single computer without any compromises.  [:P]


  • wow, herb very impressive!! I can't wait!! Now for the million dollar questions

    1) do you have an estimated release date?
    2) How much?

    I really can't wait to get my hands on it!!!

  • In a few weeks, (and maybe even sooner), and 95 €.

    best

    Herb


  • Incredible!

    Herb, you forgot to mention the system specs for your test rig. What CPU, motherboard (frontside bus/RAM speed), HDs etc?[:)]

    And how about the Mac testing? 


  • At NAMM show Vienna Ensemble 3  was presented in network mode on OSX systems.

    As far as I know everything worked well.

    These are the specs of my system as far as I know:

    Supermicro Server-Rack

    Motherboard: 6015A-NT
    Intel Xeon doubel processor 5160 - 3GHZ
    ECC Ram BC2 5300 677 MHZ CL5

    best

    Herb


  •  Herb,

    You got this kind of performance with one Dual core 3.0 ghz processor?  If so, did you choose that because you felt that either the quad core or a pair of either the dual or quad core processors would not offer a commensurate performance increase?  In other words, what was your thinking in choosing this configuration?


  • All this desicions are done by CM, I'm sure he will post here soon.

    best

    Herb


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    @herb said:

    For me it's a historical day because it's the first time I could load and work with the full VSL power on one single computer without any compromises. 

     

    Amazing! It's a historical day for the whole VSL community, hell yeah! Even a year ago what you described was just an utopy. Congrats to the whole VSL team for pushing the limits in this industry. [<:o)]

    Now, it would be really nice if you could post in details your configuation (hard drives? RAM? choice of CPU?)

    Edit: as a total ignorant of what a server is, I did some research: the SuperServer 6015A-NT is already a small computer, with a mobo, integrated graphics, dvd player, power supply and case. All this in a 1U rack unit (!). All that is missing is the RAM and the hard drives. I want one. Now.

    Thanks! 


  • several considerations had influence on the decision for the SS6015 - chipset, processor, memory and the 16x PCIe slot

     

    whereas the 6015A holds only 32 GB RAM but has the 16x PCIe for a dual screen setup with a radeon 1950, the 6015B would take actually 64 GB RAM - for several reasons we also added a dual controller FW400 / FW800 PCI-X expansion card.

     

    at the date of purchase the XEON 5160 (3 GHz) and the XEON 5150 (2,66 GHz) had a reasonable price so we decided to try both (2 processors per machine, 2 cores per processor) - there is not too much noticeable difference, neither with the Vienna Ensemble nor with other CPU hungry applications.

     

    the motherboard also allows PCIe and PCI-X riser cards and the PCI bus can be set to any value between 33 and 133 MHz so allowing tests with several audio devices (currently a *legacy* PCI hammerfall multiface) though a VE-network solution wouldn't even need an audio device, nor would it in fact need a dual screen grafic card.

     

    as posted earlier this are multi-purpose machines and if you are looking for a VE slave any intel 5000 series motheboard wuold be good enough, actually a modern core2duo would do the job if there were any motherboards out there holding more than 8 GB RAM.

     

    the quad core 2,66 version with 16 GB RAM is almost identical to the older macPro - another setup with bootcamp and VISTA64 performs exactly as well as the supermicro running XP64 ... it is just MUCH more silent ;-)

     

    as herb pointed out it seems there is absolutely no difference with VE-network betwwen macPro 10.4 / 10.5 / bootcamp + vista64 and a comparable other intel 5000 board running XP64 or VISTA64, but a G5 PPC performs significantly less well and interestingly also puts additional load on a connected host.

     

    the sequencer machine mentioned above is a rather *old* pentium V (IIRC P4C-800 board) 3 GHz, but it looks like it would allow even some more tracks to be inserted before the CPU overloads. another setup with a core2duo macBook Pro as host and any intel based VE slave showed similar results.

     

    just for fun paul and chris kardeis also opened VE-network *cross wise* from the macBook to a macPro and simultaneously into the other direction (dosn't make any sense, but worked without glitches)

     

    finally you could also connect a VE-network to the *localhost* means running VE-network on the same machine where the sequencer resides so splitting load across the sequencing machine and a dedicated VE slave

    christian


    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • ahhh - the harddisks .... my *darlings* the western digital raptor 10k rpm are used as system drive and the seagate 1 TB sATA II for data.

    how to configure the drives is not completely tested yet - the sATA controller allows many modes. two raptors mirrored for system and 2 seagates striped for samples looks like a usable config, but in theory the single drive AHCI mode should be faster ... it is just a driver issue for XP and VISTA, the drivers seem to be not really optimized currently.

     

    selecting RAM is somehow a lottery beyond 8 GB and i would recommend to use only sticks certified by the respective manufacturer.

    the used KINGSTON 2GB DDR2 PC2-5300 667MHz CL5 ECCx4 fully buffered single rank are slightly below the specification (and significantly cheaper) but the distributor guaranteed they work flawless up to 16 GB per machine - in fact it seems they also work up to 32 GB per machine.

     

    christian


    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • Fantastic news - do you want my credit card details now???

    That aside - what kind of latency are you running on i) the 32GB Monster PC config and ii) in a network solution?  128,256,512,1024 or more?  Can you play in real time on this configuration?

    TIA

    Tim


  • From my experience with FXT I hate anything more than 128.

    DG


  • Our guys at NAMM operated at 256 buffer size,

    I've to setup at 512, I think this is caused by my older sequenzer computer (buffer size has to be set on the sequenzer engine)

    128 will not be possible via network a the moment.

    best

    Herb


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    @herb said:

    Our guys at NAMM operated at 256 buffer size,

    I've to setup at 512, I think this is caused by my older sequenzer computer (buffer size has to be set on the sequenzer engine)

    128 will not be possible via network a the moment.

    best

    Herb

    Fair enough. Whilst you're here:

    Are your samples loaded into a standalone or are the using the plugin version? In both cases, what happens to the VE GUI? Does it remain on the slave or is it beamed across the network, so that you don't need two monitors? If the second, I would hope that it will all work via Remote Desktop.

    DG

  • VE GUI remains on the slave, and there is no reason why remote desktop shouldn't work.

    I prefer to use the extra screens on the slave, because my sequenzer's screen space is always to small for me.

    VE network is always a kind of plugin, it runs as "standalone" on a slave but is also automatically a plugin on your sequenzer.

    Fact is that you have 16 channels/16 audio outputs in one VE network instance.

    That's why I've used 4 instances for my setup.

    best

    Herb


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    @herb said:

    VE network is always a kind of plugin, it runs as "standalone" on a slave but is also automatically a plugin on your sequenzer.

    Fact is that you have 16 channels/16 audio outputs in one VE network instance.

    That's why I've used 4 instances for my setup.

    best

    Herb

    That makes sense.

    FWIW, the reason that I use RD (apart from the fact that my slaves are in another room) is that I very rarely have to make changes to the template, so I don't have to see the slave GUI very often. I would imagine with a 30GB template (my mind is still boggling), as long as one can remember the keyswitches and controllers, there may be no reason ever to look at the slave GUI.

    Now, here is my dream. Just play, using a keyboard and Breath Controller, and let VE Super-Duper (when CRAY's are fast enough) sort everything else out. [;)]

    DG


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    @cm said:

    the quad core 2,66 version with 16 GB RAM is almost identical to the older macPro - another setup with bootcamp and VISTA64 performs exactly as well as the supermicro running XP64 ... it is just MUCH more silent 😉

    christian

     

    Hi cm,

    I am not clear which machine you are referring to as being more silent-- the PC or the oder Mac?  If the PC, any sense how it compares noise-wise to the latest Macs with the penryn processors?


  • Herb, are you gonna be selling "VSL certified & optimized" systems? or maybe in cooperation with VISION DAW or similar?

  • cm-

    You wrote:

    'Finally you could also connect a VE-network to the *localhost* means running VE-network on the same machine where the sequencer resides so splitting load across the sequencing machine and a dedicated VE slave.'

    Now go slow and be gentle with me on this...

    So if I have a MacPro running Logic and another MacPro slave -would VE3 Standalones running on the master MacPro with Logic be able to network the audio back into Logic on the same machine without using either Soundflower or a 'Loopback' style audio interface such as an RME MADI?

    If so, please explain what the network signal flow would be.

    Thanks,

    Jack


  • abel, already more than a year ago i sent requests - though not very specified - to several builders of hardware - no one even replied ... so i'd assume this road is not open ... vsl does not have any motivation to go into the hardware business as long as users send requests how to create folders ...

     

    jack, you can think about VE as a plugin in any sequencer of your choice

    christian


    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.