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  • Bouncing to Disk When Using VE as an External MIDI Device?

    Hello Everyone, This post is looking for anyone who can answer this question and more specifically a guy named Ray out there who helped me with using VE as an external MIDI device in Logic 8. I am using a Digi 002 as my audio interface and am using VE as an external MIDI device. I have it set up so that the signal is being run through the IAC bus' and appears as MIDI information in Logic's edit window. Now that I have recorded my parts, how do I bounce that information to disk? The best that I can tell is that the signal from the VE tracks are not coming out of outputs 1&2. I know this because I can hear the signal, I can see the signal in each individual VE channel strip, but I don't see the signal from those channels appearing in the master fader when I solo them. I have tried the real time bounce and that wasn't it. Anybody out there know how I can make it so I can bounce the information to disk with the rest of my sequence? Once again, thank you all. And Ray, if you're out there my man I could really use your mojo.

  • Hi Chumley. I'm not a Pro Tools user, so please forgive my ignorance of its complexities. However, as a simple starting point you obviously need to know what audio outputs the VE is routed through before you can bounce them to disk - so set the sequence running and mute (not solo) each audio track in turn till you find the pair VE is playing through. Then bounce the output of that stereo pair to disk. HTH! [8-|] 


  •  The problem is that you need to assign VE's audio outputs to an output in the audio interface that can be looped back to an input on the same interface, or to use more than one interface.

    As far as loopback capabilities, I am not familiar with Digi 002, but, if it has multiple ADAT inputs and outputs you could imitate the configuration I employ with a MOTU 2408.

    The 2408 has 3 ADAT banks so I run a short ADAT cable from Bank C's outputs to Bank B's inputs.

    Outputs 17-18 (Bank C) are assigned to VE

    When routed to Bank B via the cable they become inputs 9-10.

    Then I create an AUX channel in Logic and assign its inputs to channels 9-10 and its outputs to channels 1-2.

    Using this model one could run a total of 4 stereo VE standalones.

    Other interfaces such as those made by RME allow the user to connect any outputs to any inputs using the software that accompanies the interface.


  • OhHo! I Think I understand what you're getting at. I will have to see if this is something I can do with the 002. I will post the outcome as soon as I can. Thanks for all the help. Chad

  • Okay, so I am back and apologize for the delay on this thread. I have checked it out and I am not able to do this with the 002. Am I really stuck to the point where I'm not going to be able to use VE as a stand alone because I can't bounce the recorded information to disk? What confuses me is that I have all of my VE channels within VE bused to the VE master. The outputs of the VE master are 1&2. Is this not the same output 1&2 as Logic? I don't understand where VE's signal is coming from and how I am able to hear anything if it's signal is not coming through the same output 1&2. Is there a way that I can somehow set up an aux track within Logic and rout all of the IAC Bus tracks to that aux track which would have outputs 1&2? Thanks again.

  • Chumley

    Hi, I don't have a digi 002 either, but having a quick look at the getting started guide off their website shows you can route signals within the software quite easily.

    What I think you are going wrong is the use of VE master out. The Digi002 is an audio device that is accepting audio on outputs 1&2 from both VE and PT - so you are hearing everything correctly but the audio is coming from two different applications. What you need to do is have the VE audio out piped back in to PT.
    I suggest having a look at the signal routing section in the manual. The way I would set it up is to have your MIDI going out to VE, VE sending audio back on Outputs 3&4 then within ProTools have a new audio channel with inputs 3&4. You would then record the audio coming in to PT on Inputs 3&4 and there is your "bounced" audio track. You could always then add a 2nd audio track with Inputs 3&4 and continue to record another section.

    This may of course be completely wrong, but please have a go and let us know. It works the same way in Logic btw - just read your post and I'm not sure if you are using PT or Logic, but the principal is the same.

    Tim

  • Hey Tim thanks a lot. I will give it a go and get back to the forum ASAP. Happy New Year and thanks again.

  • Hey Tim. I tried out your suggestion and while understood and good in theory, it doesn't seem to work very well with Logic which is what I'm using. I think PT is a little simpler, friendlier and clearer when it comes to routing things. The other issue is that I would like to be able to use the Score application within Logic so that I can print out parts etc. and I can't do that unless it's in MIDI. Maybe I'm just simple minded but this seems to me to be a really basic thing to be able to do. Amazingly enough, even the Apple guys don't have an answer. I have an external MIDI device (VE) that I am routing through the IAC bus'. Sound is coming out, MIDI information is present and editable, I can control and record automated moves on each individual fader. Where is this signal outputting to if not to outputs 1&2? It's also frustrating that I can't bus the individual MIDI tracks, otherwise I would rout the signal to an aux track and have that coming out of 1&2. I'm curious if anyone else has had this problem. Here we have a method offered up by VI to use the VE as a stand alone device routed through the IAC bus'. GREAT and very smart! How do we make it so one can now bounce the recorded MIDI information to disk with the rest of the sequence? Programmers, support team I challenge you. This seems really basic so if I'm an idiot I'll concede to that fact, but no one seems to have a comprehensive and simple answer to this problem. Thanks again to everyone.

  •  Your problem appears to be this:

    You need to route the Audio from VE back into Logic (this has nothing to do with IAC which governs MIDI, not audio). For your purposes, VE's output cannot be directly assigned to outputs 1-2 but must be set to some other output pair that is then routed back into Logic using an Aux channel whose inputs are the channels to which VE's outputs have been assigned and whose outputs are 1-2. (When you currently hear VE playback you are listening to outputs 1 & 2, but these outputs are not being routed back into Logic where they can be processed and recorded.)

    To configure your setup so that you can record VE's audio output into Logic, you need an audio output device for VE that can be routed back into some hardware or software audio input. (Imagine. if you will that VE is an external sound source such as an external synth module or stereo microphone pair. Such an external sound source would need a way of getting its signal into your compter and into Logic. If, for example, you were running VE on a slave computer, the slave computer would have to have its audio output feeding into an input on the Digi 002 and from there it would be routed into Logic. When VE is run as a standalone it is external to Logic and thus needs its audio signal fed into Logic in the same manner as would an external device or sound source.)

    The basic signal flow is as follows: 

    VE Source Audio Signal to Hardware Audio Output to Hardware Audio Input to Logic AUX Input

    (Aux Input set to the hardware input channels to which the hardware output has been directed, Aux Output set to Channels 1-2.)

     

    To accomplish this, on the MOTU 2408 (audio interface), I route the ADAT outputs of Bank C to the ADAT inputs of Bank B via a short ADAT cable. Then I assign the input channels of Bank B to Aux Channels in Logic. Thus, in VE, the first stereo pair is assigned to outputs 17-18 and the Logic Aux is set to inputs 9-10 and outputs 1-2.  I do not know if something similar is possible with the Digi 002

    Some audio interfaces - - definitely those made by RME and possibly some of those made by Apogee (call them first!!!) - - allow the user to do the same thing using the software that accompanies the interface. I do not know if this is possible with the Digi 002. (Call Digidesign and ask..)

    Another solution is to use two audio interfaces in the manner I described. One MOTU PCI 424 card can, for example, accomodate four 2408 boxes.

    Yet another solution is to use a software audio router. I know of two, both freeware:

    Soundflower made by Cycling 74 and Jack OSX.

    I have had little success with Soundflower as playback has been consistently marred with clicks and pops when I've attempted to use it.

    I have not used Jack OS X which is considerably more complicated than Soundflower, but other users have reported some success with it. If someone has used Jack OS X successfully, I and many other Forum participants would be most grateful for step by step directions for setting up and using it.  

    I hope this is helpful.

    Stephen 


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    @chumley said:

    The other issue is that I would like to be able to use the Score application within Logic so that I can print out parts etc. and I can't do that unless it's in MIDI.

    That's fair enough - Logic's score editor is a representation of MIDI data so it won't work unless the MIDI data resides inside Logic. I don't see how else it could work!


  • Hey Stephen and Forum, I talked to Digi and the only way for me to do the above is to have VE comeing out of inputs 3&4. I then have to run two analog cables out of the Digi 002's 3&4 outputs and into inputs 5&6. In logic I have to set up an Aux channel with the inputs being 5&6 and the outputs being 1&2. Bingo, everything works and I am able to bounce to disk. So everything above is what you're doing on your MOTU 2408 except you're able to do it with digital cables. My new problem is LATENCY! The only way I can have everything play and performe in time is to have the buffer size set to 128. This of course is much too small and causes crackling and popping so I guess my next question is how do I fix the latency issue? Would it be better for me to use Jack OS X or is there a better way? Once again, thanks for the help.