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  • Vsl spacial recording characteristics?


    I was always wondering, about the way Vsl records their instruments.

    Are the intruments recorded in relative volume and expressiveness towards eachother, menaing that they are all processed uniformaly, and that the timbre , level and expressiveness is represented correct in relation to the library as a whole?

    or is every intrument recorded at an optimal level individualy, and processed with various dymaic enhanchment techinques to get the signal as hot as possible?

    Obiously recording in a dry enviroment does not recreate the spaciality of a orchestral setting, but i mean does the string sections for instance mirror the relative level to some of the solo sintuments for example?

     So i guess im wondering how much the levels and spacial feeling you have to adjust with the instuments towards eachother, or are they already recorded as they resonate naturaly in level and dynamics?

    Becouse im unsure of how loud some of thesee things should sound in reletion to eachother, and how much the signals are artificialy boosted to get optimal recording levels?

  • There is no such thing as a correct level, although there is such a thing as in incorrect level. For example a low flute is very quiet in a large hall, but in a chamber surrounding is much louder.VSL has to take into account all usage when producing the samples. Therefore, the user can't except all the work to be done for them, and must actually learn something about orchestration as well as engineering if they want to get a good result.

  • Hello pzy-clone (... nice screen-handle, BTW! ;-) ...),

    DG is right (although I would have put it a bit more friendly 8-) ...): All our instruments are recorded at optimal levels, technically. There's such a huge difference between of (say) the Fortissimo a hornsection and the Flautando of some violins that it wouldn't make _any_ sense to keep the recording-levels untouched. Apart form that, all instruments have their own mic-setup in our SilenStage.

    The changes during recording and editing are carefully logged, though. According to these notes, the relationship between the softest and the loudest notes _within_ one instrument is kept true to the original in the final product, i.e. the Vienna Instruments.

    This gives our users the chance to have _every_ relation between _all_ instruments available, in any setting, be it strictly classical, or hard, dry R'n'B.

    There was a heated dicussion on a similar topic not long ago in our orchestration forum:
    [URL=]"Setting up a Standardized Wide Range Dynamic Environment"[/URL]

    Hope this helps!

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • [quote=Dietz]DG is right (although I would have put it a bit more friendly 8-) ...):

    Hey, I'm friendly. I just don't have a sample product to promote, so may be a bit tactless at times. [;)]


  • Well, thanx for answering.

    But offcourse there is no absolute "correct" level, but i was thinking in terms of an orchestral setting, since its called vienna SYMPHONIC Library, after all.

    But that pretty much answers my questions, and im not after having something prerecorded and mixed ala EWQL, but i was merely interested in how VSL approached the recording, if it were done with focus on the individual instruments, or the library as a whole.

    Thanx Dietz, danke schoen mein herr.

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    @pzy-clone said:

    Btw, DG im not a moron for asking a question in here, so leave the attitude somewhere else mmkay?

    I never suggested that you were a moron or even that yours was a stupid question. However, as you don't like my attitude I won't waste any more of my time answering any of your questions in future, so you won't have to worry about it.


  • Easy, guys, easy! :-)

    Pzy, you're very welcome. DG is a true Senior Member here and well known for his merciless, but never unjust messages. And please, Daryl, don't add oil to the flames, Pzy-Clone is sure happy about answers of an adept as well as silver-tongued colleague.

    Peace!  [B][B]

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • yes Dietz , you are right offcourse, forum arguing is one of the truly pointless activities of the modern world :D

    And he is right, there are no "correct" levels, but i was reffering to levels relative to eachother in VSL`s super mystical dry torture chamber thingy.

    Im quite adept at both programming and composing myself actualy, and have no need for anyone else "doing all work for me" as he implied, but i have also never worked with a real orchestra, so thats why im always curious towards how things are recorded and made into virtual instruments, compared to the real deal.

    I do offcourse appriciate any answers, but sometimes people only answer this kinda thing to point out how knowledgeable they are, and how terribly missinformed everyone else is. But that might not have been the case here, and i apologice if that was not the intention.

    Anyway, on the subject matter though...

     So if i understand correctly, the dynamic range is somewhat representative of the individual intuments as they would play in real life?

    Meaning that the PP levels are not brought up in level compared to the f levels for example?

    ...offcourse, real life instruments dont have a velocety scale from 0-127 , so im assuming it will never realy be completely "accurate", well, not untill you start sampling things witth like 50 velocety levels.

    Wich im sure you will be doing soon hehe.

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    In relation, the dynamic range with a single Vienna Instrument should be _very_ close to the possibilities of the original instrument. Careful mapping and the powerful engine of our player-software are the keys to that.

    @Another User said:

    super mystical dry torture chamber thingy

    Neither super mystical, nor dry, but yes: sometimes torture. [H]


    Kind regards,

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • "The only thing for which there is no remedy yet is the rumbling of musician's stomachs, which is why the strategic scheduling of lunches and dinners also becomes a necessary priority." [:P]

    Actualy, my respect and appriciation of the VSl library has grown immensly lately.

    My previous encounters with VSL left alot to be desired, but i have discovered how incredibly consitent and deep this library goes, its thought of everything. And how it sounds in use, not just the Kontakt 2 material, wich quite frankly..does not do the library justice at all IMHO.

    I havent tried the "new" VSL VST instruments as of yet, but im hoping to invest in the  range of VSl instrument quite soon, as im getting some steady scoring work next year.

    Back to the subject though...

    Well, its good that samples can give a accurate representation of real life instruments, as some of the stuff i have written, and will use VSl for, might be translated into real life orchestral sessions at some point, so its good to know that the dynamic range of Virtual instruments will be somewhat the same as real players.

    I dont know how it will be comparable, but atleast the virtual versions will be a good guidline for translating things into reality, if need be.

    Actualy, it woul be quite interesting to hear if anyone has any experience in re-recording previous VSl demos with a "real" orchestra, and what their experiance was, and how the results compared.?

    THanx for bothering.

  • Thanks for the kind words, and just for clarification: The Kontakt-Library is only a very small teaser of the actual Vienna Symphonic Library. Apart from that, as great as Kontakt is as a general-purpose sampler, it misses much of the highly specialised, custom-built features of our own player.

    You will understand as soon as you played the Vienna Instruments yourself. :-)

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

    ... your final question would receive better visibility in our "Orchestration"-forum. Here, we are mostly a small crew of tech-geeks ;-D
    ---> [URL][/URL]

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library