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  • I´d love to get some professional critics about this work!

    Again, I kept it short and see it as a practice song. I´m quite happy with it, but since I´m still new to composing for orchestra, I´d specially like to know, what U guys would change about the use of instruments. I did not really try out much about other patches like con sordino or similar. Would there be any place, where U would use other articulations or use e.g. Celli instead of Violas? Any recomendations about the mix, specially the reverb? Thanks for helping me over and over again! _ http://www.hohes-b.de/Adagio_071016_ohneGeräusche.mp3

  • Why not start with the piano and build to the fully orchestrated version than out with piano as it is now? I think your parts are working pretty well with the both harmonic and polyphonic textures and the ochestration seems solid with everyone playing in comfortable registers. You could do several orchestral treatments or variations if you wanted to do an excercise in orchestration and tune accompaniment.

  • Hi there, I just listened 3 times to your piece, the first time the harmonies reminded me of Samuel Barbers Adagio for strings, just in double tempo,have you been inspired by his piece? Somewhere in the middle you use some perf-legato in the violins (from b-flat to d the first time), it does not sound realistic in the context of this style,no string player would do slides at this place (I play the cello),so maybe you could do it without,because it just sounds artificial.I know there is allways the temptation to use these great VSL features, but people often use them at the wrong place,just because they think that they have to use them because they are built in, but very often it leads totally into the wrong direction. The transition from the string to the piano part is very well done! What kind of reverb did you use?Wich DAW application?Cubase? Logic? Do you use the reverb as Bus and do you use Pre-send? All the best christof

  • Hi Guys, thanks for the tipps! Good idea to start with the piano. Sounds more like a logical piece to me now. @ Christof: I´ll try that. My problem is the lack of experience with orchestral music, which is why I´m happy to get some oppinions of people having more contact to orchestra music. Barber defenitely was an inspiration. Not on pourpous, but sometimes I catch myself improvising on the piano, while sliding into existing songs like this one. But when I realized the similarty to Barber Adagio, I thought it was different enough to give it try without just copying others work. I work with Logic, but I prefer using the Altiverb reverb. In this case it was the Vienna Concert Hall. In case you tend to use that: I used the track positioning with one reverb for all tracks in the master output, but I just figured out on my actual work, that it is better to use a reverb bus in combination with altiverb positioning tracks for the single instruments. In my case I prefer to set the fader post instead of pre send. But there is a lot of people here, knowing much more about reverb. Just search the forum for "altiverb". There´s a really good thread. Best Felix

  • Two things jump into my ear...

    1) The sound intensity curve is to even and narrow. The impact would increase drama^tically when widening the volume sound intensity curve. This could be achieved in different ways, I merely tested it with Volume automation, see screenshot below, until it sounded better to my ear. 

    2) At start of the Pianoforte, the music falls apart energetic wise because the Piano comes in to soft, this at least on my high resolution monitors, and is possibvly rather worse on less resolution loudspeaker,

     

    A sound intensity curve like that would increase the impact and being dramatic quite a lot. I think the Pianoforte is comming in about 6 dB to low:


  • Wow Angelo, that is a lot of volume automation. Do you usually use that much on an orchestral piece?

    Colin Thomson 


  • I can answer that: absolutely.

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    @Another User said:

    Wow Angelo, that is a lot of volume automation. Do you usually use that much on an orchestral piece?

    It is flabbergasting to hear how much a mix master modifies my tracks sometimes, and this after the fact I thought the dynamic curves are optimal.

    Colin, decide yourself if it increases the impact or not, I rendered the volume curve on Felix's segment. It is a little bit like a conducter squezzing more dynamics out of an orchestra, but only a test run...

    File Name: Felix_modified volume curve.wav (44.1 Khz) Size: 15MB

    http://www.sendspace.com/file/ewhlpp

    .


  • Angelo is right.. As a conducted work with live orchestra, the conductor always will emphasize the dynamics more to get the player to react to him. That is why good orchestra's live sound so good. They have great conductor's who interpret the music on the page and bring it to life. That is why just laying down a midi track will sound flat without these adjustments. I have worked in studio orchestra's in my 20's and I can tell you this is the norm. Listen to a passage of Debussy(La Mer), Copland,(Quiet City) etc.. or whomever and see the differences from what you are doing and I think it will help you:) Regards, G

  • Obviously you do not just play a piece as it is written. I understand that value of a good interpretation. I just use more of the velocity crossfade than the volume automation, as that is actually changing the tone of the instrument rather than just changing the db level. But the crossfades in VI are certainly not always very realistic, so I guess a combination of the two is the best way to go.

    Colin Thomson


  • I listened to the changes you made, Angelo, and yes, it does breath more life into it. Do you do this sort of automation in each individual track of a piece?

    Colin Thomson 


  • glad you figured it out! Like I said, it's about listening, and the rest will take care of itself.. I can usually tell right away if the emotion is there from that. It's like breathing with the phrasing. Take Care, G

  • I find it useful in many situations, even if I am not doing orchestral writing. The music mixers on the films I do sometimes will do that after the fact to create more intensity with whatever else is going on. It's like a tool box. You do what will get the job done. It's always fun to try new things to see if this works. I assume that is why you did the original post of your file to get good input that would help. Hope this did:) I usually never have time to post anything. Working too much, but been sick, so I am working off the laptop and reading a lot:) I think I have only posted twice here in several months.. Could tell you stories about great engineers I have worked with, using radical EQ's in a mix and getting criticized for it! In the end it sounded great, so then they become the hero of the project! Cheers, G

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    @gives said:

    [...] Could tell you stories about great engineers I have worked with, using radical EQ's in a mix and getting criticized for it! In the end it sounded great, so then they become the hero of the project! [...]
    How true ... I've been there myself - except the "hero"-part ... 8-|

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
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    @ColinThomson said:

    Do you do this sort of automation in each individual track of a piece?

    Yes, on every individual instrument track. Any automation available to drive an acoustic relevant parameter is applied.

  • Hey Angelo, quite impressive how such a little automation can make a piece much more interesting. Even though it´s quite frustrating to realize, how far I´m away from where I want to be, I have to say thanks for your efforts. No I´m starting to wonder, if I should use more tempo change. Specially your automation at 0:22 gives a movement, I didn´t hear before, which might even improve, if I slow down a little???

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    @Felix Bartelt said:

    No I´m starting to wonder, if I should use more tempo change. ???

    Tempo changes are very much in vogue this winter.


  • PaulP Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on