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  • Chamber strings with more violins "stacked?"

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    Hello,

    I am very close to purchasing a string library. It looks as though VSL is far superior to anything out there... I was looking at the new Miroslav from IK... but it seems VSL has even more expression and realism.

    So... I am looking at VSL instruments' Chamber Strings. (it is actually quite similar in price to the Miroslav IK, although it's not a full symphony). I like the general sounds and closeness of a chamber orchestra... but my question is will I be able to create some bigger violin "sections." For example, I may want some more "whispy" violins in the background.. lets say 14 violins for 1 note, 14 for a second note. Is it possible to "build" such a sound in VI Chamber strings? if so, would it sound okay?

    Is there some reverb included with the VI's?

    I have a dual 1.8 G5, with 1.25 gigs of ram and a seperate HD for samples and audio.

    Thank-you for your assertions and recommendations and advice.. I am very new to the Vienna world.. and may perhaps require some more "talking into" buying it.

    Steve
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    Hmmm..

    I am reading on another thread that it's easier to make the Orch strings sound more intimate than to make the chamber strings sound bigger and more lush...



    This migh tbe a tough decision, as it's quite impossible to "demo" a sample library.


    Steve
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    Actually, if you live in Los Angeles you can go to West LA Music and they have the Vienna Instruments up to try. If you go to a guitar center or Sam Ash you might be able to try it out as well though no gurantees.

    Looking at your first post, you seem to have low amounts of ram. You might want to get 2 gigs instead of the 1.25 that you have now. These Vienna Instruments can take up quite a bit of ram if your not careful. There is no reverb that comes with the VI but I suggest you check out either Altiverb 5 or Gigapulse which are high quality [:)].
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    "I am reading on another thread that it's easier to make the Orch strings sound more intimate than to make the chamber strings sound bigger and more lush...."

    I'm not aware of this thread, but I do agree. Simple math says you take the sound of three violins, layer it five times, and you've got fifteen players. But the ears' math begs to differ. You get a "Q-ee" phasing sound -- one of those sounds that sounds like it's trying to sound like something it isn't.

    Paradoxically, one chamber string patch companioned to a full violin section, or a solo violin (perhaps two) with a full violin section can be convincing.

    This may be because acoustically, a listener could hear a body of violins playing and perhaps the concertmaster or one or two soloists here and there. That's a common aural experience, and I think it's why solo plus full doublings work well.
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    @astronmr20 said:

    I have a dual 1.8 G5, with 1.25 gigs of ram and a seperate HD for samples and audio.

    Steve


    Hey Steve:

    To add to the excellent advice that has already been offered, I would double check that your drive for samples is different from your drive for audio, and different still from your main internal drive.

    Agreed: up your RAM to at least 2GB. The more, the merrier you and your Mac will be.

    True: Orch Strings I & II *can* sound very intimate when necessary. It's a different sound from Chamber Strings, but you don't really want to stack Chamber.

    There was one technique someone mentioned in yet another elusive thread. The idea was to copy, say, a violin MIDI track, transpose the track up a half step, then insert a single pitch bend controller number to have the two tracks play in unison. This way, you are not doubling up on the exact same samples to the effect of cancellation. I don't know that I'd do that in every case as a rule, but it *is* effective in a pinch.

    Still, if one string library were to be had, I'd recommend the Orch Strings. They will be more versatile with a greater variety of projects than the Chamber Strings.
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    You can avoid the "phasing" problem by transposing the copies down and up a full tone (not semi tone) and using the pitch wheel to bend the notes in to unison. Then you aren't triggering the same samples. I did this and loved the sound. It was lush and big, and when I panned the copies left and right - a bit - not too much- it was very wide and smooth.

    i was going to buy the Orchestra Strings, but now I don't need them!
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    The best idea I think is for someone to make an example with an mp3 showcasing the double layer effect with the chamber strings to sound bigger and someone else tweak the Orch Strings to sound like it's more "intimate" as a mp3. Anyone have a moment to do this? [H]
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    I'll try to post something tomorrow if i can.
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    Yeah, I'd love to hear an example of this, too. Seems like it should fill out nicely.

    Thanks,
    Mahlon
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    @mattdean said:

    You can avoid the "phasing" problem by transposing the copies down and up a full tone (not semi tone) and using the pitch wheel to bend the notes in to unison. Then you aren't triggering the same samples. I did this and loved the sound. It was lush and big, and when I panned the copies left and right - a bit - not too much- it was very wide and smooth.

    i was going to buy the Orchestra Strings, but now I don't need them!


    Hey Matt:

    You were the member I was referring to in my earlier post. Glad you chimed in!!
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    Hi Matt,

    Yes, I too would really like to hear a demo of this technique you are talking about.
    I'm also trying to work out which vsl library in regard to strings, I would like to have. The chamber strings I can afford, but the orchestral strings will take a little more time saving up the cash for. I'm also considering the Opus Bundle.
    So, if you can post a demo of this technique you are talking about using the VI Chamber Strings to get a "big" section sound, that would be really great.

    best,

    Steve. [:D]
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    Thanks guys,

    This is all great information based on experience. This forum in and of it'self is a great tool for one who would purchase these libraries.


    I would certianlly like to get the Sam Ash folks here in Charlotte, NC to load up some VI's for me and see if I can spend an hour or so twiddling around. I have been to some good Sam Ash's... but the one here in Charlotte dissappoints me.. the workers practially TRY to ignore you. Anyway, I digress.


    If anyone were to post an MP3 of how some layering sounds with Chamber that would sure be appreciated.

    Yes, I do not yet have a drive that would dedicated to samples. This is recommended? Something around a 100-gig would not be costly. And I guess I should cough up for more Ram. It is not costly for me to go to 3 gigs.. and I suppose I could save a little longer and purchase the ram when I buy the VI.

    Also,

    If someone could point me/ us in the direction of a composition that was done JUST using VI's chamber, and another that used JUST Orch strings, that would also be splendid. I have heard some amazing things in the user section (for "whispy" orch sounds, the samuel Barber blew me away.. and he is one of my favorite modern composers), but it is not always listed what they used... and many are combinations of libraries.

    A bit O/T... does anyone here like Gorecki? (:
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    Henryk Gorecki?

    Me likes him [:)]
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    @Maya said:

    Henryk Gorecki?

    Me likes him [:)]


    Exactly!

    Yes I think he is brilliant. UN-traditional, heart-wrenching compositions.


    Steve
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    Sorry, this is all I had time for.

    http://www.mattdean.com/chamberstringtripled.mp3

    Now, it's not just transposed and pitchwheeled back into unison. You have to also adjust the tracks so the timing is slightly off - a delay of 3,5 or 8 (plus or minus) in my Logic's track paramaters. Also, the pitch setting in my Vi interface is set to pitch up (or down) 192, or 195, or 187 instead an even 200 cents, depending on your likes. That way it isn't exactly in tune, which it wouldn't be if it were actually adding another 6 violinists.

    You get the idea. It helps smooth it out. Hope this helps.

    Cheers, back to work[:)]
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    Thanks Matt,

    That is a very good example.
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    Thank you Matt for posting that demo.
    That's a very beautiful and impressive string sound. I'm also very impressed with the liquidity and fluency of the string sound. It's so hard to believe that those are string samples playing. Amazing is all I can say!
    Thank you again for posting this.

    best,

    Steve [:D]
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    That extra layer makes all the difference.

    Thanks, Matt! Great going-- very clever.
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    My pleasure! It was Jay Bacal who gave me the tip. He's the master!
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    Ah. Good ol' Jay. [:P]