Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
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  • Vienna Instruments transferrable?

    Will the Vienna Instruments license be transferrable? Now that these products are dongle based, there should be no concern for the previous owner keeping and using a copy once it is transferred.

  • For what its worth - I agree...

    There is no longer really an argument not to make it transferable. It can also take away some bitterness in 4-5 years time when a new VI is released, that we can actually sell our old one.

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    @Christian Marcussen said:

    For what its worth - I agree...

    There is no longer really an argument not to make it transferable. It can also take away some bitterness in 4-5 years time when a new VI is released, that we can actually sell our old one.


    Of course, if you sell the old one you won't get any VIP pricing on the new one, which in the current set-up has saved me over £3000.

    DG

  • Having the choice wouldn't hurt though would it?

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    @Austin Haynes said:

    Having the choice wouldn't hurt though would it?


    I agree with the "selling the licence" possibility (see my posting on another thread), I was just pointing out that it would not necessarily be a way to save money.

    DG

  • A transfer of licenses will be possible under certain conditions. We’re currently working on it, also in cooperation with Syncrosoft.
    Cheers, Martin

  • Martin, this is excellent news. Thank you.

  • (cough)... Excuse me... (hestitant) What exactly are 'dongles'? [:O]ops:

    Thanks!

  • A dongle is a USB key (like those USB disks you can buy) that contains some memory and other electronics that is used as a protection key for software. It needs to be inserted into the USB port or the software won't work.

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    @dbudde said:

    A dongle is a USB key (like those USB disks you can buy) that contains some memory and other electronics that is used as a protection key for software. It needs to be inserted into the USB port or the software won't work.

    ... and you won't get a better explaination than this! Thanks, Dbudde.

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • the official wording from syncrosoft for their *dongle* is *eLicenser* or *USB protection device* - we decided to name it simply *ViennaKey* and it will have a respective inscription.
    christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • May I use the same dongle on my desktop when I am at home or on my laptop when I play on a stage (like my MOTU 828 for example)?
    Sergio

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    @Sergino Futurino said:

    May I use the same dongle on my desktop when I am at home or on my laptop when I play on a stage (like my MOTU 828 for example)?
    Sergio


    Yes, that is the positive side of a dongle. Of course when you drop it at the end of the gig and are scrabbling around in the dark under the stage trying to find it........... [:'(]

    DG

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    @Martin said:

    A transfer of licenses will be possible under certain conditions. We’re currently working on it, also in cooperation with Syncrosoft.


    I must say I'm surprised by this. Allowing license transfer of intellectual property (i.e. allowing different people to have control/use of the content at different times) effectively opens the door to rental. For one price, a number of different parties will be able to utilize VSL content in major projects. Say a person uses the VSL library to realize the score for a movie or CD project, then sells the library. The VSL intellectual property in that movie or CD is still earning royalties, residuals, re-uses, etc. for the person, even though that person has sold the library and no longer owns it.

    Lee Blaske

  • lee, this is a valid point ... although we are somehow caught here in jurisdication. if something is software, one must allow a license transfer.
    now we could say: ok, you can transfer the license for your vienna intruments, but this makes no sense without the related content.

    martin said *under certain conditions* - details are TBD

    a bad example: XSI comes with a huge collection of examples and patterns. generating income from work using this stuff after having transferred the license is .... ???

    christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • We won’t allow a direct transfer of a License from one user to another without our knowledge. Under certain circumstances, we will allow a person to terminate his or her license, and another person will license the samples from us, using the used media and the used ViennaKey of the former user. In any case the license to use our sounds is granted to a single person who cannot transfer the license. So rental is not allowed, as it is the case with our sample libraries.
    Cheers, Martin

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    @Another User said:

    In any case the license to use our sounds is granted to a single person who cannot transfer the license.


    OK, so if a library is re-sold, the second buyer must buy the used media and keys directly from you, and not from the previous purchaser (i.e. these products will never be sold on places like eBay). So, I guess we can say that VSL libraries are going to remain essentially not transferable, except in some very special circumstances, with very specific policies and procedures for resale. Since VSL is internationally distributed with a local dealer structure, I can imagine that any kind of transfer would be a very complicated transaction. The decision on when to allow a transfer would most likely need to be made in Austria, then the software and keys would have to be sent to the local distributer. The local distributer would have to cut the check to the original purchaser, check, test and repackage the used content, and then complete the transaction with the new buyer. Sounds like it would be quite a PITA.

    I actually approve of this policy. Making the libraries freely transferable would mean that fewer copies would be sold, so the price per copy that you'd have to charge would be higher.

    Lee Blaske

  • Lee, I think it's pretty common that transfer takes place with the developers permission. MOTU does this with their products so they can assure who the rightful owner is for support as well as upgrade reasons. All they require is you sign a form that says who the transferror and transferee are. Sales can still occur on ebay. Native instruments does somethng similar but it's done through their registration process.

    So I don't think what VSL is doing would preculde Ebay sales. You'd just need to notify them first and get "permission".

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    @Another User said:

    Under certain circumstances, we will allow a person to terminate his or her license, and another person will license the samples from us


    What are the circumstances? Would one need to submit a request, and then wait for a robed trial board of VSL judges to rule on the request? In other words, this transfer policy could be very lenient, or very difficult. The policies have not been revealed.

    Keep in mind, that a Digidesign or MOTU product is VERY different. Mutliple people can use a MOTU rig. If you left on a three month summer vacation, you could let a friend use your studio and MOTU or Digidesign rig for that period of time. You can rent out this equipment. That's not the case with VSL.

    If VSL's transfer policy were straightforward, and matter of fact, it could easily be abused. What would prevent me from selling you my library for $1,000 with a stipulation in the sales agreement that you must sell it back to me two months from now for $1? In other words, if VSL library licenses are freely transferable, people will essentially be able to "rent" them with sales agreements. The current renter would simply transfer the library to the next renter.

    On top of that, having these libraries be so mobile will make it completely impossible to ever determine if a library was properly used by an actual owner during the time that he/she owned it. Perhaps VSL has already given up and thrown in the towel on being able to do this.

    It just strikes me that if VSL moves away from the "sacred" trust of one library to one composer for life model, they're opening themselves up to a scenario of complete relativism and situational ethics. Ambiguity will make it very difficult to sell intangible assets.

    Regardless, it would probably be a very good idea for VSL to get serious and spell out the specifics of their new VI license transfer policy. It seems people are making assumptions about transferability, and they might be very surprised and upset when the actual letter of the law is revealed.

    From a legal perspective, I would think it would have been better for VSL to state that the license transfer issue was under consideration, but nothing has been decided. Maybe the VSL lawyers have already left for their Xmas vacations. [;)]

    Lee Blaske