Herb,

With all due respect - you continue to "miss" the point that VSL user that has been with you from the beginning and bought the full pro edition, will end up paying more than a brand new buyer.
You fail to figure in our existing large investment.

And the samples in the standard VI are mostly the same samples from the Pro Edition. A higher bit rate DOES NOT make them "new" samples.

It also continues to confuse people when you state "41% off" and don't explain that the 41% is ONLY on the extended samples. There is Zero VIP discount on the Standard VI.

As a Long time VSL owner and as a early adopter and evangelist for VSL - I am indeed disappointed in the VIP upgrade path currently offered.

Ed, I see your point.

But to keep a full "First Day investement Discount" would mean that the full version of the Symphonic Cube would cost more than 15.000 €.

Or a different hypthetical scenario: if we wouldn't have produced any new samples and the new developed software consists only of reedited Pro Edition sample stuff.
And we would sell this package for 3500 Euro.
It would not be possible to keep 100% of your investement, even if we give it away for cero Euro to our Pro Edition users.

best
Herb

Herb,
Thanks for you patient replies.

I see your point also. And I don't think the current VIP offering is TOO far off the mark.
But its far enough that ill will is occuring.
Up till now VSL is one of the few companies that I felt good about investing in.

Perhaps you can come up with some additional benefit for you current pro edition owners.

Thanks a lot Ed,

it's a fact that our loyal customers enabled the developement of the Vienna Instruments, and I really would like to see everybody happy. But I also have to find the right business decisions to keep VSL up and running.

The most effective and simplest thing for us to honorate our customers is to offer free downloads. We are producing a lot of new stuff and we will continue the policy of free downloads in the future.

best
Herb

Herb,
You may also want to reconsider an addition VIP benefit for a few other reasons.

Bugs.

Your VI is going to have issues. All VI's have issues. But no VI in history will have cost as much as yours.

Your long time loyal users will be indespensible in working out various bugs and issues. If your long time user base is happy ..... you will get helpful feedback.
But I fear that if the first owners of the VI are NEW users and some disgruntled VIP'ers - Flamers will be all over you in the forums for ANY bugs or problems.

Good will goes a long way and earns a great deal of patients when it comes to these issues.

Your early users saved you thousands of tech support hours as they helped people learn the rep tool and the perf leg tool.
Web forums were active with your early evangelists helping newbies wrap their heads around those concepts and tech issues.

You are going to need your early evangelists even MORE with this powerful yet compicated VI.
Plus East West QLSO is likely to have an anouncement eeerily similair to your VI at namm ..... (may not be available for a year but I can picture the announcement [:D] ) . Again your early user base needs to still love you as you make this transition.

Just a thought.

And by the way .... we are posting here out of love.
We love VSL. We care. We have invested heavily.
Please hear our upstetment for what it is...... long time users feeling abandoned.

ed .. you speak far more wisely than i ever could.. thanks for setting them down on "paper" so well


please .. VSL .. listen to the sense .. do the right thing.. a lot of loyal user base could be walking the other way otherwise

@edhamilton said:

You are going to need your early evangelists even MORE with this powerful yet compicated VI.
Plus East West QLSO is likely to have an anouncement eeerily similair to your VI at namm ..... (may not be available for a year but I can picture the announcement [:D] ) .

It's probably bad form to quote myself .....
But Doug just informally made reference to ewqlso phase three .........


I am still hoping VSL reconsiders and makes sidegrading to the VI a no brainer for its long time supporters.

Yes, I'm afraid that after buying all of Pro Edition and Performance Set, it's impossible for me to think of spending...what...6000 or something more for the convenience of loading it as a plug in. It is not as if it's a new sample library...correct or no?

This will remain a niche buy for most....either lawyers or doctors, or other professionals making far more than I.

Or people who haven't really discovered the joys of paying off a credit card....forever.

I really have to believe that the Cube owners needed, and deserved, a bigger break than this.

Priced out of my range.

TH

Is VSL just going to keep upping the amount? SC2 costing double of SC? Seeing how the VIP isn't quite the way it use to be, you have to wonder how few (note not many) there will be to buy another "add on"..... [:'(] . VSL is the best but I don't know how I can keep with their excellence...Perhaps they are too good for us humans [:P] .

Thank you Ed you speak for me also.

It seems like Herb is going to let the storm quiet down and make no changes to the VIP prices.

Since there is NO incentive to buy into the VI (the organ is really not a deal maker), there are going to be two camps out there -
1) people who spent good money on a VSL lib
2) people who spent the EXACT SAME money on the VI version.

The VI people get a massively improved work flow with the VI. They get speed control and universal mode etc.

We the early adopters are stuck in previous technology.

AND WE SPENT THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY!

Since there is no incentive and we are left behind - I for one am going to wait and see what ewqlso has to offer soon.
Kontakt should easily be able to do what the VI player can do if they decide to update it with those features.

Any way you slice it - VSL wants $5000 from me to update my VSL and stay with their current technology. This the most expensive upgrade in library history.
$5000 ... hmm ..... ewqlso phase three + ewqlso choir + true strike = A LOT LESS THAN 5K.

Ultimately my disappointment will lead me to keep my credit card in my wallet and VSL is currently the most disappointing investment I have ever made. And I owned Pro Tools back when it was sound tools!!! So I have some experience with painful upgrade cycles.

Ed: Again you speak for me also!

Thanks for wording it so succinctly.

[:)]

...I guess that's how unions were born!

Thanks guys. Really I am just trying to calmly make our case to Herb.

And I have to add that it shows immense class on Herb's part to let us express ourselves in this forum unsensored.
While he has made no effort to work with us ...
He has also been the very model of a classy gentleman.

It is so damn hard to be mad about this when I am impressed with every aspect of this company.

But this terrible VIP upgrade offer leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. Bad enough that it could forever change how its hard core user base feels about VSL.

Herb, I am mad as hell at you. But you (and the whole VSL) are truely a class act.

Here is my solution after much consideration:

Take that 5,000 dollars and invest in Apple stock. Wait for it to double again-sell at 10,000. Then buy the VI. (that might take a year) Take the remaining 5k and buy oil futures. Wait for that to double and then buy the complete package

Herb will just have to wait.... awhile to get my cash.

Then again-if the initial VI upgrade was more in the realm of reason I would have ordered this week.

And yah- I would rather be composing than watching the stock market. But I can get by with the tools that i already own and paid hard earned cash for.

@Bruce said:

Take the remaining 5k and buy oil futures.

Oil has no future! [:P] BAD investment

(Maybe we should move this to the Which Investment Monthly Forum?) [:D]

yes on the apple investment. It's going to go up again when the intels start coming out and at the price they'll be at they'll definately boost switchers.

I agree once again with Ed.

I can't deny it hurts to not be able to use this new technology at a reasonable upgrade path I can afford when it honestly makes the old EXS load your tracks system look like something from a dark and dismal prehistory that you'd rather forget and burn the history books of, I'm talking torture and punishment and all the while you thought IT was the good life only to be slapped in the face by the new era of trains planes and automobiles when you've just come out of the jungle on your horse and buggy. he he.

I mean lets be honest, that's why we're all hurting. It's like we bought a car and it was pretty good had wheels and engine, it went places ie a to b looked great. NOW they've just released a brand new Astin Martin style design at the same price and now the old "thing" just looks like junk all of a sudden. "Thanks for helping us built this baby guys sorry the old model looks like crap in comparison just now but well that's business, hey by the way this new model also transforms into a submarine has oxygen recycling runs on safe nuclear technology for a million years without repowering and also can fly at mach7 and the extended edition travells through time yeah, just like that movie back to the future. Now we know it looks/sounds the same as the old one, but believe us, the engine is COMPLETELY different." only this isn't cars it's software and we're all part of the system at least that is how we *felt*. [:'(]

Sorry for the poetic license. [*-)]

And finally I submit. It's the best damn product on the market bar none. It's a must have for any composer worth his organic sea salt. [[:|]]

Just take the money (he sheilds his tearful eyes and hands the fat wad of bills over shaking it while looking away) "TAKE IT TELL YOU TAKE IT TAKE IT I SUBMIT. I PLEDGE MYSELF TO YOUR TEACHINGS" [:'(]

he he

sorry just having fun. [:D]

And hey Herb/VSL yes you are classy to let us discuss this on the forum. You can afford to afterall, VSL really is the best.

@mpower88 said:

yes on the apple investment. It's going to go up again when the intels start coming out and at the price they'll be at they'll definately boost switchers.

Definitely? Do I have your guarantee on that? OK then -

BUY BUY BUY!!!

no money. wanna lend me 50k? [:P]