Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
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  • Power Mac G5 Dual-core is out!

    So the dual-core is out now, just today! From what I can see it seems like a good buy... any comments?

  • i've noticed the single proc dual core ist 2,3 GHz and the quad is 2,5 GHz *only* ... and PCI-e(xpress) is the only bus available .... are there PCI-express audiocards out already? i couldn't find any ...

    btw: met two system engineers from apple yesterday and asked them about running logic on Xserve (can't remember who, but someone brought that up here) - they said nothing would speak against it (besides the noise this machines make)


    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • Is there any advantage to doing that? What we want is an EXS Node program. [:)]

    That'll put their two gigabit ethernet ports to good use!

  • Need help here.

    Between the Power Mac G5 Dual-core 2.3 Ghz and the (ancient) 2.7GHz Dual, what would be the pros [:D] and cons? [8o|]

    Thanks, [[;)]]


  • What the hell is a node anyway.... Everyone keeps going on about these things. To mme a node is a little blip on a grpahic disaply, or track automation line that allows you to create curves and stuff ... is that what it is ... in that case how does it help in EXS.

    As for the G5 Dual Dual system .. I am sooo getting me one of them. It's a shame it isn't a 2.7 but the quad processors will moore than make up for the loss in system buss speed. Also it's 1mb L2 cache again .. per core!


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    @Guy said:

    Need help here.

    Between the Power Mac G5 Dual-core 2.3 Ghz and the (ancient) 2.7GHz Dual, what would be the pros [:D] and cons? [8o|]

    Thanks, [[;)]]


    I have heard that Dual single-core processors are still more powerful than a single dual-core processor. So If I were you I wouldn't consider the lower systems as the Dual 2.7 will be more powerful.


  • Both Multi's have the basic same problem:
    There needs to be an (software operating system) handler that divides a task between the two processors. either two externals or the two internals in the dual core. And it depends on the handler, how effective multi processing is. In the MAC OS X area, the process is below average. The best professional plattform for multi processing is Windows 2003 Server Edition. (IMO)

    In the case of two distinct processors, the overhead is at least 25%, so even in the case of ideal software support for dividing tasks between procs, you don't double the power.

    We just installed a couple of dual cores PC Servers (4 procs / each dual core, which sums up to 8 processors) and the speed is incredible.

    I would say, that in a given architecture, you need to add about 7 - 10 % loss for a dual core (internal overhead) over two single processors, which sums up to 35 % speed loss.

    Remember, that this is an ideal case, like numeric intense rendering of video/audio, which can be rendered step by step separetly with perfect softrware support. You can also assign specific programms to specific processors, if the software allows you that. (Multiple independant instances of the same programm).

    EMAGIC and EXS are pretty good balanced for multi processor, but most of the other programms don't have any specific support.
    MAX/MSP in the version 4.5 also makes good use of multi cpu's.

    OS X is trying to split tasks, but the programmer needs to mark internaly the sections that can be threaded. So the basic overall answer is: It all depends.

    Too old for Rock n Roll. Too young for 9th symphonies. Wagner Lover, IRCAM Alumni. Double Bass player starting in low Es. I am where noise is music.
  • Christian,

    I think it was I who raised the question of using servers for samples.
    Is it possible for you to expand more on what the engineers said?
    Did the question of stability come up, and reliability? Anything else?

    I'm thinking a dual core G5 with samples on a server would be a possible solution to using a big sample library given the restrictions of todays hardware and software. (C'mon Logic, lets get past 4 gig, please)

    Nick, if samples were on a server, wouldn't it be possible to bypass the node limitations, and have the primary (sequencer) box 'see' the server as simply an external HD?



    p.s. And thanks Christian for sharing!


  • To ease up processing power in either a Mac or PC, Receptor looks quite interesting - 2U rack. I was talking with Strawinsky about it the other day - it's worth checking out. It looks like you can dump all - or most - of your plugins, and some sample libraries onto Receptor and work via an ethernet cable.

    Nodes for actual samples, are a watse of time at the moment in my view. In other words, yes, you can send stuff like Altiverb via a node ect - but not samples at the moment.

  • My order's in for the Quad...and the Receptor. I'm anticipating an easier life.God I'm a masochist. How's it going,Paul?

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    @strawinsky said:

    My order's in for the Quad...and the Receptor. I'm anticipating an easier life.God I'm a masochist. How's it going,Paul?

    Alright - big birthday night tonight! Cliff-top scene at the Smugglers Inn. May have to go all out Hitchcock on this one and do a Rebecca.

    I trust you didn't order it from Apple Uk???????? [6]

    And also - bluetooth - no messing around with cables. Receptor I can see definite possibilities - what's the new Mac all about? On their site it says 16 gigs of ram = £8000.00 plus. Crazy or what! Crucial for ram every time.
    But we still won't be able to access anymore ram within Logic at this time. Maybe later. Receptor should take off the load.

    I was down at Willy's studio couple days ago and Logic 7.1.1 now looks very stable.

  • That RAM price is OBSCENE!.No I'm buying through a retailer.Logic 7.1.1 is very stable under tiger,I'm finding.

    Your birthday,d'you mean? Mine's i four weeks:the big one.

  • Cool! Thanks for to all for ALL the information. [:D]

    Hogmeister, or anybody else...

    So in conclusion, assuming I put in 8 GB of RAM and use Pro Logic and a LOT of VSL, what's my best bet: (you may of already said the answer but I'm a moron with these things) and if I stick to Mac: Dual-core 2.3 GHz? Quad? 2.7 GHz? etc.


  • Paul, Straw,
    Just been to the Muse site and checked out Receptor. Looks interesting. I'd be curious to know just how much of the load it will take offf the CPU, and what sort of increased RAM advantage one woud get. Couldn't find a price on their website.

    And the increased memory is a no brainer really. How many thousands of pounds?
    Disgraceful opportunism.

    So Logic is coming good with Tiger? Might have to think about upgrading after all.
    Is this the very latest updates for both logic and tiger?


    Many happy returns to you both, and Paul, don't worry, having a bus pass doesn't mean WE think you're past it! (No, really!)

    Live on Spartacus........ [:O]




  • (No, really)


  • Not my birthday - wife's.

    6 gigs of ram at crucial for a powermac quad is £660.00. I don't know how much Receptor is.

    6 gigs currently would be about enough. Nick would cover all this kind of stuff.

    With Receptor - it depends if you run huge amounts of plug -ins. With nodes - it depends on how many Altiverb 5 instances you want to run, for example. It starts to get financially exciting beyond all of that. lol.

    Then on top of that - there will presumably be some VSL libraries coming to a cinema near you soon.

    For Guy, I would certainly look at either a new Mac Quad - or look at an older dual 2.7, because the prices will go down I would imagine. 6 gigs of ram should do it. Logic 7.1.1 is looking stable and that comes with quite a few extras, like plugs and Space Designer. Sculpture is also pretty good - a plug that comes with Logic. Altiverb 5 for very classy reverb and the VSL library should keep you going for a while.

    You probably will have run out of folding money long before then. lol.

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    @Another User said:

    Nick, if samples were on a server, wouldn't it be possible to bypass the node limitations, and have the primary (sequencer) box 'see' the server as simply an external HD?

    Memory access for loading programs is the issue, not storage. The fantasy EXS Node program I'm talking about would host EXSs outside Logic, bypassing its real-world 2-3/4 to 3GB maximum so you could load twice as much in a machine with 8GB.


    I haven't looked at the price of the memory the new Macs use, but you can buy the kind that goes in previous G5s for $90/GB. That's not trivial, but it's not out of the question.

  • Thanks Alex: I need all the moral support i can get [[;)]] Regarding ther Receptor:I've been lucky enough to get hold of what SCV are calling "B" stock,ie: an ex-demo model,which has very light rack scuffing,and has been run from a computer.It's coming with a 200 gig HD,rather than the standard 40,and 2 gig of RAM,That's going to set me back around £1250,as opposed to nearly £1700.Not bad.
    I'll be putting stuff like Atmosphere,Stylus Absynth,and some of the EW librariies on it,but I won't be pummelling it.Some have cast a doubt over its CPU firepower,but it's also been pointed out that it's Linux OS and very lean and efficient,so most of the CPU is given over to the running of VST's.I'm happy with it;plus, it's about to implement Muses's own Uniwire technology,which means,when connectred via ethernet,it will come up as a plugin in one's sequencer,and support up to an in excess of 256 MIDI channels.It'll run out of CPU engine before it ever gets near that channel count.

    That's useful to know about that RAM,Paul:I was initially reckoning on 6 gig,so that's not too bad a price.Thanks.Happy birthday to the Missus,Paul!

  • Useful info Paul, thanks.

    Incidently, happy birthday to your good wife, and give her my respects and regards for her obvious intelligence, and

    formidable levels of patience!

    Always irreverent,



  • Straw, great info.
    I have a question.
    You've said Receptor appears as a plugin. Does this mean multiple instances, in relation to effects and instruments, or are you restricted to one effect at a time for multiple tracks? In addition, i couldn't find on the site how much RAM it will take. Is 2 gig the limit?

    Speaks a big case for a standalone EXS instrument, multiple instance, that can be 'played' by receptor as opposed to being exclusive inside logic. I tried and failed to find EXS24mk11 as a multiple instance standalone so i could use it as a AU or VSTi. (It would have been interesting to load EXS24mk11 in Cubase, or use it in a host for Sibelius etc.)