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  • Memory usage in soft samplers

    Given that there is a lot of talk about the various merits of Kontakt, Gigastudio, Halion etc. I would very much like to see VSL make some statements about the relative memory usage that is possible with each. Most of us do not have access to the same programs in multiple formats so are not really able to make a reasoned comparison, but this is something that VSL could do. If, for example, they were to take an average GS machine with 2Gb RAM, which would probably mean 1050 Mb usable memory, a Kontakt standalone on a machine with 2Gb RAM, and load Horizon products until each was full, it would be very interesting to see which loaded more instruments.
    Obviously number of instruments is only part of the story, but for many people it is the most important.
    Any thoughts folks?

    DG

  • Total memory usage would be good to calculate the costs, but the number of the same instruments fitting into e.g. 1000MB usable memory would be of more help for a reasonable comparison. Anyone who could do that? That would be very insightful indeed!

    PolarBear

  • Are you suggesting a test of all samplers on the same computer setup? Or rather, one for Mac and another (equivelant) for PC.

    What about disk streaming settings (+ hard drive type/set up) ? ...or would the test be for RAM only with disk streaming disabled? Or perhaps you meant just the ability to just load the instruments into RAM without actually playing any midi?

    Perhaps two tests per sampler?

    1- a bench mark test - all samplers set up the same (as far as possible)
    2- a best possible performance test - using each sampler's features and settings to maximum effect.

    K2 has a great feature where you can unload all unused samples from an instrument with just a click of a button, thus freeing up RAM. If you make changes to the score you can reload all samples again and then repeat... maybe all the vsl samplers can do that?.... my other sampler Mach Five certainly can't.

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    @MarkOfTheStoat said:

    Are you suggesting a test of all samplers on the same computer setup? Or rather, one for Mac and another (equivelant) for PC.

    What about disk streaming settings (+ hard drive type/set up) ? ...or would the test be for RAM only with disk streaming disabled? Or perhaps you meant just the ability to just load the instruments into RAM without actually playing any midi?

    Perhaps two tests per sampler?

    1- a bench mark test - all samplers set up the same (as far as possible)
    2- a best possible performance test - using each sampler's features and settings to maximum effect.

    K2 has a great feature where you can unload all unused samples from an instrument with just a click of a button, thus freeing up RAM. If you make changes to the score you can reload all samples again and then repeat... maybe all the vsl samplers can do that?.... my other sampler Mach Five certainly can't.


    All I want to know is the best possible scenario for loading samples into memory and using the disk streaming facilities on the same PC. Most people with big orchestral templates run out of RAM long before the PC gets choked (unless GigaPulse is being used). The purge feature of K2 is useless to me, because I don't know what samples I need until I've finished [:D]

    DG

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    @DG said:

    . The purge feature of K2 is useless to me, because I don't know what samples I need until I've finished [:D]

    DG


    It is so quick to update or reload samples (about 2 secs) that you can easily reload all samples for instruments as you begin working on them and then update sample pool before moving on to the next instrument. I love this feature - it makes a mockery of memory limitations! [:D]

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    @MarkOfTheStoat said:

    It is so quick to update or reload samples (about 2 secs) that you can easily reload all samples for instruments as you begin working on them and then update sample pool before moving on to the next instrument. I love this feature - it makes a mockery of memory limitations! [:D]


    We obviously have a different way of working.

    DG

  • I have differrent ways of working, too [:D]

    Usualy I get RAM starved as the project builts in instruments (er... doh!) by which time I am usually more inclined to work in specific sections at a time (violins, brass, bass/celli, percusson etc).

    But the other cool thing is it's a good intermidiate step between midi scoring/editing and bouncing tracks to audio for mixing. You can strip away unused samples, free up RAM, therefore load some any non VSL sampler instruments if needed, or some VI's or just plain old reverb and EQ plug ins ......then listen ....and THEN go back to individual VSL instruments -reload all samples - tweak midi as necessary and so on and get good head start for when you eventually do bounce to audio for provisional mixing or what ever the next stage is.

    Well, probably that's just my way too, but even if you just used it on say a couple of Timpani tracks which only play little and sporadically then it's still a great little memory saver .... I will not be persuaded otherwise [[;)]]

  • Well, it's not only a few who want the final output at once and being able to interact with every step of their work at any time. Afterall it's a question of how to speed things up efficiently, and bouncing doesn't count into efficiency for me, but only as a necessary need to get more ressources.

    It would also be nice to have a comparison with both GS and Kontakt/Halion on one machine used simultaneously compared to EXS, Kontakt, GS or Halion alone!

    PolarBear

  • The K2 thingy is not bouncing - it just remembers what samples will be used in the project and 'de-loads' the rest. Like I said it takes literally ***2 seconds*** to de-load (maybe 3 seconds to load back up again).

    Perfect for taking a deep breath, or having a little neck stretch... [[:|]]

  • That may be nice if you have K2 and is surely used by some, but yet there is no comparison base to other samplers at all! [;)]

  • I run VSL on Halion3 under Sx3 on a PC Pentium 4 which is two years old... I manage to run an entire orchestral template live with no crackles on just a single machine... running reverb and a few other fx.
    I have the sample pre-load reduced to 0.2 seconds which means that I have plenty of headroom RAM wise.
    All in all very happy.
    Just need to persuade Steinberg to add the following desired features:
    1) 0.0 seconds pre-load - e.g. don't load any samples, but stream them off the harddrive - since I notate orchestral pieces, I could handle the latency
    2) Lazy sample loading - only load the samples I play. The current RAM save functionality that Halion and other samplers have whereby they unload what you don't use is about face. How about just loading what you do use? Much more sensible - although obviously a limitation in terms of latency... but if you can live with that?
    The above two will effectively allow me to have MASSIVE templates of orchestral and other instruments on a single machine...
    All I need to do now is persuade VSL to integrate the bloody performance tool into my DAW so I can start using it... I HATE the lack of integration with the performance tool - it is VSL's worst and most debilitating feature... it annoys me that they seem so reluctant to provide a midi-plugin solution OR at least something like a VSTi wrapper. Running the performance tool externally and having to set up virtual midi ports sucks... sorry VSL - you know my views - the rest of your library is superb... the PT is not! So close, yet so far...

  • We must be clear here what an entire orchestral template is. I doubt very much that there is a commercially available machine that could run my orchestral template, and there are others who have even larger ones.
    Regarding the PT, if all you are using is legato instruments then it is possible to do away with the PT on Giga and K2 (with the correct programming for iMIDI or scripts), but that is only a small portion of the PT. I'm not sure that the rest is doable internally yet.

    DG