I think that the actual sound is very good and on the whole the mix works well for me. My only real cristicism would be of some of the performance tempi and timings. I don't find enough space, particularly in the last couple of sections. Other times (figure 172 for example) the tempo relationship is just wrong. It is dificult to explain, but I tried conducting it through and it felt very rushed at times over barlines. An example of this is the subito pp 3 bars from the end, where the whole orchestra needs to feel as though it is holding it's collective breath.
One more very small point. A previous poster mentioned the Timps; I think that not only is it too much "in the face" but it sometimes sounds early. Remember that in real terms the Timp player is at the back of the hall so one doesn't get the immediate effect. That is not to say that it will sound late...!

DG

DG--

I agree that in general I have to learn to take more time (and more breaths). I also think that in midi mockups I have to learn to exaggerate tempo and dynamic gestures even more than I am. Whenever I make a gesture too subtle (or neglect to make a gesture at all) it just doesn't seem to communicate.

The observation about the timing of the timpani is interesting and I'll have to try to get that "back of the hall" micro delay next time.

Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment.

William-- I used the same instance of Gigapulse for the layerd solo strings as the ensemble strings, but I panned each solo string a different amount.

--Jay

Ok - now I listened to the piece on speakers I trust. Great work, but as everybody pointed out already, the timpany is _way_ too loud, at least 6 dB, I'd say.

To bring it to the back of the orchestra, I would suggest to give it a healthy amount of a dedicated reverb (imagine a dry/wet ratio of about 30:70, just to give you the idea, even if you use an Aux-send). The reverb should have little or even no pre-delay and should sound "full" and "round", but not too dark, without getting "boomy".

In addition, you could give more distinct panorama postions to most of the other instruments and sections, to create a little free space in the middle to put the timpany in there sonically.

All the best -

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library



[... edited for some bad spelling errors and uncomprehensible explainations [8-)] ]

I'm afraid I suggested very strongly to Jay that the timpani should be much louder than what he originally had, based on the awesome 70s Stokowski /London recording (maybe the best ever done) in which the timpani is almost as loud as all the rest of the orchestra. So Dietz, don't judge him too harshly for a 6db error - it's Stokowski's fault.

I agree there should be a breath mark or maybe even a slight G.P. just before the last crescendo chord. However I disagree with the statement about the tempo being rushed. If you attempt to do this piece you will have a very difficult time avoiding monotony near the end, because of all the repeats of the motif and the heaviness of the brass. That's why it is essential to make those tempo changes very marked, which I think were extremely good in Jay's performance.

@William said:

I'm afraid I suggested very strongly to Jay that the timpani should be much louder than what he originally had, based on the awesome 70s Stokowski /London recording (maybe the best ever done) in which the timpani is almost as loud as all the rest of the orchestra. So Dietz, don't judge him too harshly for a 6db error - it's Stokowski's fault.

I agree there should be a breath mark or maybe even a slight G.P. just before the last crescendo chord. However I disagree with the statement about the tempo being rushed. If you attempt to do this piece you will have a very difficult time avoiding monotony near the end, because of all the repeats of the motif and the heaviness of the brass. That's why it is essential to make those tempo changes very marked, which I think were extremely good in Jay's performance.

I would hesitantly suggest that you haven't conducted this piece William, because I am only speaking from my own experience.

DG

... deleted

DG-- Could you elaborate where figuration 172 is? In my 1910 version of the score the movement starts with rehearsal 197.

Dietz-- I pushed the timpani exactly 6 DBs above 0 DB as this is the max that Sonar will let me boost a signal. You guys on this forum have some scary hearing abilities!

--Jay

@JBacal said:

DG-- Could you elaborate where figuration 172 is? In my 1910 version of the score the movement starts with rehearsal 197.

--Jay

Ah sorry; I was looking at the 1945 Suite...! 172 is the Doppio valore 104 bpm and should be approx. half the speed of the preceeding section.

DG