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Very Interesting James. It makes sense. I really have to catch his next one in SLC [:(]

Rob

@PaulR said:

[quote:5b02cced95="see why what?"] One of Smallys points was, when you get the cue from the composer at 10:58PM and the down beat for the recording session is at 8AM the next morning, speed and sysetems will get you through the night in a less fickel manor than inspiration.

James

James, you're kidding, of course.[/quote]

paul,

Kidding about inspiration being tempermental or the inhospitable time frame?
the time frame is common and inspiration is a poor collaborator.
:>[;)] (still haven't figured out the smiley faces)
james

@PaulR said:

James, you're kidding, of course.

Kidding about what? Nothing he said was kidding. What are talking about Paul?

Evan Evans

[...

[quote:4a049a50f0="see why what?"]a short five note english horn theme (i love the vsl english horn) played while someone is going through a dresser and is afriad they might find body parts(which is the least of this persons problem because the audience can see the killer is watching her from the closet and quitetly muttering "no mother, no") might be harmonized like this...Cmin to Abmin to Emin to Bbmin to Dmaj. The major chord is for when she finds a picture of herself as a child, the E to Bb is just a matter of skipping over a possible G root.[/quote]

The E to Bb is also a diminished 5th, which is the 'wild card' interval in the whole Mediant Harmonic concept. (Or 'Goldsmithian Technology' as Scott likes to call it.)

Like the three chords in the "Batman" main theme melody...Cmin, Ab, Dmaj. Third, diminished 5th. Big and dramatic.

Fred Story

COOL! [:D]

@PaulR said:

James, you're kidding, of course.

Kidding about what? Nothing he said was kidding. What are talking about Paul?

Evan Evans

Sorry lads! My bad. I misunderstood the use of the word 'speed' [:O]ops:

i went over that part of my post to figure out how one could possibly find 2 meanings in what i wrote....laughed my arse off! [:D]
...it inspired me to figure out how to use the smiley faces.
james

[...

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh LOL!!!!!

Now I get it. Although to be honest, Scott does say that Excedrin gives him a Caffiene boost in the wee hours when the crunch its really on.

Evan Evans

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The Mr. Smalley we hung out with would have laughed his butt off.

james, fine explanation (of the II-V-I > 3rds evolution, not the sp--d)
[:)]
thanks

Nigel

oh god, Scott would have been laughing in tears at that Paul. You would have been officially accepted into his "clan".

[;)]

Evan Evans

Moving chords in thirds has been around a couple centuries guys so I'm not quite seeing a big bright light on that one (and yes in a non diatonic manner.) In the last century it's preponderance is abundant.

Any other nuggets to be put forward?

Dave Connor

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Hi Paul!

Okay, chords are built in thirds. If you wanna build a chord where C is the root, you need an E and a G too. You can keep on adding thirds if you want, but three notes is enough for it to be considered a chord.

In any given key, you can build 7 different chords, just by stacking thirds above each of the 7 notes in the scale. If you study harmony, each of these chords is given a roman numeral I II III IV V VI VII, for simplicity.

So, in C major, chord I is C E G. Chord II is D F A. Chord V is G B D. So, in answer to your question, a II-V-I is a progression of chords. You can play a II-V-I in any key, and it will have the same emotional effect. Each chord has an emotional effect (refered to as "function"). For instance, chord I has an effect of resting, of comming home. Chord V has the most tension, and "wants" to go to I. The extent to which I'm simplifying is ridiculous, but what the hell.

Anyway, if you play a II V I using seventh chords (four notes per chord, like C E G B), you will realise it's the staple diet of the jazz language. Well, beebop anyway. It's really boring! I share Scotts boredom with II-V-I.

Now, if you look at the relationship between those three chords, the roots are at a distance of a descending fifth. (D G C) This is a kinda boring relationship, because we have heard it too much. Scott suggests moving arround by thirds instead, like I-III, or I-VI. The magic starts to happen when you start forgetting about being in a particular key, and giving the chords you move to the "wrong" attributes. Tradditionally, chord II (DFA) is minor. Well, make it major if you like [:)] .

So, the concept (which I agree, has been around for about a century and is old news), is to move by thirds, and use whatever kind of chord you like. You are never really in any particular key, and you never get that crappy V-I stark feeling of resolution. Oh, it's also very "Elfman" to move the roots by a tritone (C to F#).

Leon

Paul,

I asked Scott for clarification during the class. I wanted to make sure I understood the whole "Mediant Relationship" thing correctly. So I said, "If we were to apply this as a rule, then chords can move up or down a major or minor third, and to or from a major or minor chord. Plus the diminished fifth, of course."

Scott said, "Exactly. You make it sound so simple."

Which it is, really...on the surface. The tricky part is making sure your voice leadings make those harmonic movements sound fluid...and of course writing lines and melodies that move well with the chords. Scott has gone so far as to create a mediant scale which works over these kinds of chord movements.

Again, a perfect example is that Batman theme. The melody is C, D, Eb, Ab..., G, F#. Under it, the chords are Cmin, Ab..., D. Third, diminished fifth. And the way he voices those low brass chords is just massive. It's a perfect example of another Smalley film orchestration rule which, while not new, certainly bears repeating...

Power comes from simplicity.

Fred Story

Leon and Fred-

Thanks for the excellent tutorial. Very clearly written. Opens up 'new' possibilities (moving in forths, sevenths - regardless of original key??)

Thanks again guys. For me an interesting chordal progression provides for an 'interesting' melody over the top.

Rob

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