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  4. Scott Smalley Orchestration seminar.

  • Scott Smalley Orchestration seminar.

    F
    F
    Another Concentrix composer and I just returned from New York City and Scott Smalley's 2 day film orchestration seminar, sponsored by the Film Music Institute.

    If I start talking about it, I won't be able to stop. Suffice to say...HIGHLY recommended!

    Not only will you learn amazing stuff, you'll meet a lot of like-minded people who will become new friends.

    I'm inspired and energized...and boy do I have homework to do!

    Fred Story
  • L
    L
    Fred,

    Please start talking, and don't stop!
  • R
    R
    Come on Fred - give us the 'juicy parts' [:D]

    Sounds like a great 2 days well spent. Seriously, can you share the highlights?

    Rob
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    F
    Be careful what you ask for! [:D]

    Seriously, the thing that makes Scott's course so unique, to me, is that he has developed some ideas and concepts about orchestrating film music for large orchestras that are totally his own. Some of it runs totally contrary to what our professors taught us. That being the case, I feel funny about sharing anything he might consider proprietary without his consent. (He's such an amazingly open guy I'm sure he'd probably give it...but I'd definitely want to ask first.)

    Exerpts of some of his presentations are available at the Film Music Website as downloadable MP3's. And don't expect some dry, proffesorial monologue. Scott's as entertaining as he is brilliant.

    Here's a link. http://www.theindustrystore.com/doause.html

    I will tell you...I learned at least two entirely new concepts which will serve me well for the rest of my career. Now I just need to get work applying them. That's the easy part, right?

    Wrong!
    [[;)]]

    And I reiterate, one of the best things about being there in person is the people you get to meet. A real bond develops. One of the 'Smalley Alums' even took it upon himself to collect the email addresses of everyone in attendance, and share it with the group so that we can all keep in touch. As Scott might say, "Dude. That's cool!"

    Fred Story
  • M
    M
    Glad to hear. I'm going to the L.A. one next week and I can't wait. Hopefully order will prevail after the US election!
  • P
    P
    Fred, time permitting, could you comment on the materials you received as part of the seminar fee?

    I overviewed the MP3 store link. I know an MP3 would be void of the sense of community and creative excitement of "the room," but would you recommend the audio files as a stand-alone teaching tool?

    Thanks in advance for any advice you may share.
  • F
    F
    Plowman,

    The seminar includes two HUGE bound books of scores...over 400 pages, I think. These are the actual note-for-note scores from movies Scott has orchestrated...plus some other surprises. As you may know, these scores are almost impossible to acquire. Scott provides them for education purposes, and I don't know of any other way to get them. There are even copies of some of the composers' original sketches, followed by the completed orchestrated score. We only studied a portion of them in class, so there's lots of material to dig through in the months ahead.

    There are also 2 CD's, neatly indexed with recordings of each score in the books. Scott has organized the package beautifully.

    Before attending the class, I had ordered an excerpt CD from Film Music's website a while back. I would say I got a decent overview of Scott's concepts...but the class really breaks them down in minute detail.

    Attending this seminar is one of the most important things I've done for my music in years. Scott is not only probably the most successful film orchestrator in Hollywood, but I was bowled over with his openness and desire to share every ounce of his knowledge. I met composers from all over the country, as well as Denmark and Italy - who'd flown here just for the class.

    Can you tell I dug it? [[;)]]

    Fred Story
  • P
    P
    ...
  • L
    L
    Me too! [:'(]
  • E
    E
    Fred,

    Now you know my secrets!

    But seriously, to understand fundamentally what Scott is saying, is to completely rewrite waht you thought was the most effective and clear way of presenting your ideas. And yet, Scott only illuminates to us, that by sheer logic alone, we should have been doing it this way all along.

    Evan Evans
  • L
    L
    [[:|]] HUH?!? I didn't understand that at all!
  • F
    F
    I think I know what Evan is saying. Scott presented his ideas and concepts in such a simple powerful manner, that I've fundamentally re-thought the way I approach my orchestral work. I feel I'm already reaping the benefits, and can already hear the result.

    By the way Evan, I mentioned you to Scott at the after-class get together and he had very nice things to say.

    Fred Story
  • E
    E
    Neat Fred. Thanks,

    Evan Evans

    P.S. yeah, upon rereading what I wrote up there, I think you'd have to understand what Scott teaches in order to understand what the heck I said. LOL.
  • L
    L
    Hi guys,

    Today I paid for and downloaded the hour-long Scott Smalley orchestration masterclass from The Industry Store (http://www.theindustrystore.com/doause.html).

    The extent to which I am surprised and dissapointed is difficult to put into words. In my opinion, it is entirely inconcievable that any orchestration student could extract any applicable information from this lesson whatsoever. If there is any vaguely applicable information in this seminar, you could find it using google in a lot less than 57 minutes (which is the duration of the seminar). Then you could have a donut and a coffee, and you would still have time left over.

    Once every twenty minutes (so three times in total), Scott actually makes a reference to orchestration. The rest of the seminar is dedicated to life in general, movie politics, the evolution of the human species, Scott's techniques to stay awake for several days at a time, or how composers are like druids who sing mantras. The first enlightened gem of information is that his score layout has the trumpets above the horns, because, well, it's clearer. The second revelation is that if you put all the instruments in the same tessitura, they blend better. The third and final pearl of wisdom is that he tries to find idiomatic things for the instruments to do, so he would rather give the woodwinds runs than merely double the brass in a fanfare. That, my friends, is it.

    I should mention that Scott is currently "pushing the envelope" of western harmony by adding the blue note to the dominant (I assume he means mixolydian) scale. The reason is "because we need more notes". There is no further explanation. Another awe-inspiring spear of knowledge is that you don't have to use only II-V-I's when you write music. You can use chords that move by thirds, like Gerry Goldsmith. He states how this realisation changed his life for ever. There is no further explanation.

    Was I expecting an orchestration treatise in an hour? No. Was I expecting, at the absoulute least, a glimpse into the astounding, groundbreaking, 100% unique concepts of orchestration that Scott has built from the ground up, challenging everything we learned at music school? Frankly, I was.

    Now, I know Scott is an amazing orchestrator, because I've heard his work. I'm also sure Scott is an amazing guy, and an amazing teacher (well, on some days I guess). However, it is my honest opinion that this seminar is bereft of any interest whatsoever to the field of orchestration. I post this here in the hope of warning others in my position that the concepts Fred Story is raving about are absent in their entirety. Just aswell the two-day seminar he attended was completely different. Such was my surprise that I entertained the idea that there may be two Scott Smalleys.

    Leon
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    F
    Leon,

    I think I ordered the same CD you did prior to my attending the class. You're right...there's not a lot of meat there. And yes, Scott can go off on tangents with stories about the biz. (He even warns about this in the class. He urged us to stop him if he digressed too much. But...he has some REALLY great stories!)

    I suppose all can say, Leon, is that I was one of 35 people in the class - many of them high level working professionals...one writing an opera as part of her doctoral thesis. The ones I had the opportunity to spend any time with seemed as energized as I was. I thought it also spoke volumes that at least two had taken the class once already and were auditing it for a second time. (One had attended in LA as was auditing in New York. What does THAT say?)

    Yes, Scott has a unique personality. Honestly, the first time I heard him on the CD I thought, "The top film orchestrator in Hollywood is THIS guy?" But this guy sent everyone in the class a lengthy email two days after the class outlining a couple of important points he realized he'd failed to cover in person. It's also important to note...Scott focuses on FILM orchestration, and is quite vocal about the fact that achieving the big orchestra contemporary action/adventure sound breaks many of the rules we learned in traditional orchestration. You hear examples of poor chord voicing...then explore numerous alternate voicings using his concepts. It's detailed stuff...stuff you can only get from years of working with the top film composers and the best orchestras.

    So I suppose what I am saying with all this is...don't judge a two day experience from an edited one-hour highlight reel. I don't know how much contol he even has on what gets edited into the excerpt CDs. And I don't see how he could cover his concepts adequately in such a short format. So maybe the recorded excerpts suck...but for me, the two day seminar definitely did not. I suppose my expectations weren't high when I bought the CD...and it did intrigue me enough to want to take the class. Plus it was only 10 bucks. Sorry if I misled anyone with the link to the downloads. But I can say, at the cost of the $295.00 class fee, plus round trip airfare from Charlotte to New York, and 3 nights in a Midtown Manhattan hotel - my expectations WERE high...and I wasn't disappointed. One fellow flew in from Denmark...one from Rome. (Two fellows I REALLY enjoyed meeting!) Of course, depending on what you hope to take from it, I'm sure it's not for everyone.

    And at the risk of sounding like Scott's agent, or something...

    One thing about a lot of folks in Hollywood is this obsession with maintaing their "secrets". I suppose it's so competitive, folks find it necessary. Scott is an open book. Not only is he not secretive...he seems genuinely eager to share everything he knows with anyone who'll listen. There's one concept in particular which Scott invented (the Zed clef) which I wager will be in film orchestration textbooks in the future.

    Now...I'll be emailing Scott to collect my commission.
    [[;)]]

    Fred Story
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    L
    Hi!

    Yes, I do realise that it's a different story when you go to lessons with him. But man, they should take that masterclass off the air! Its a scam!!

    sigh [[;)]]

    Leon

    PS: if Scott is listening, man that masterclass doesn't do you any justice! It's very bad publicity. Also: could you reveal just the general areas of knowledge you deal with in terms of orchestration as it differs from what you learn in school? No details, I just want to know if it's worth me travelling to learn from you, and the CD I just listened to has left me none the wiser.
  • M
    M
    I should have written a warning here when people started to refer to this CD. Yes, it´s pretty useless.
    However, I learned a bit about the composer/orchestrator relationship in Hollywood.
  • E
    E
    yeh I bought that CD too. Mostly for nostalgia. But it doesn't compare to 16 hours with the man.

    lets not even talk about it again ok?

    Evan Evans
  • L
    L
    Evan,

    The epitome of excitement actually came when he said that he made a very cool trumpet sample with you! While I'm in Carmel next year beating your french horn secrets out of you, I'll raid your hard drive too. [:D]

    Leon
  • H
    H
    I just finished the LA workshop with Scott.

    WOW!

    This is some incredible insight. It's so Jazz-istic
    in that he's passing the knowledge on so freely.

    He's a totally out there cat that just has that THING about
    him that makes you want to keep listening. Spicoli is who
    comes to mind. The inspiration that i walk away with is just
    really deep!!!!

    Dude, it's like....you know what i'm sayin'? it's just........Cool.

    Thanks, Scott

    .....now back to the jazz singer in the lounge accompanied by 3 tubas........

    more later