I like that idea of Peter Roos - "my favorite orchestra." The fact is that VSL is a particular and very fine orchestra. It just performs in a very unusual way... and these performances depend very much on the "conductor."

Maestro Jay Bacall in this case has done an excellent job of whipping these players into shape. (Though I've heard he was very cruel to the clarinet player, calling him names when he missed a couple notes then making him stand up in front of everybody to play it right. Naturally this upset the other woodwind players, though the brass of course thought it was funny and the string players were generally bored since they were waiting for some Mozart. But Maestro Bacall's approach ultimately paid off and the orchestra turned in an excellent performance.)

Impressive work. One of the most carefully balanced virtual orchestrations I've heard up to now. Congratulations.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

This is amazing! Congratulations!

Tell us something about Gigapuls, please. Did you use impulse responses from Giga or own ones? How many instances?

Thanks for posting this!
Bests,
- Mathis

Hi Mathis,

I used a total of 4 instances of Gigapulse (but my P4 1.4Ghz only runs 1 instance at a time before crashing). I used the Large Hall IR that comes with GS3. I used a different setting for the 4 main sections of the orchestra(Strings, Woodwinds, Brass and Percussion). I used 100%wet/dry mix for all 4 sections, but varied the placement of the sources and the perspective for each. I used close proximity seating for Strings, Woodwinds and far proximity for Brass and Percussion.

As I said before, I'm not certain this is the best way to use Gigapulse. So if any of you can share your own thoughts and techniques, I'd appreciate it.

--Jay

Just realized that when I make a midi file in Sonar, it ignores the transpositions. Please transpose the following instruments to get the file to sound properly:

English Horn -7
Clarinet -3
Horn -7
Viola 2
Double Bass -12

Sorry for any confusion,
Jay

Hi, a fantastic piece - well done.

I'm interested, was this entire piece played on a single PC, or multiple ones? I have imported your midi file into Cubase and am experimenting with using HAL3 for playback - so far I'm up to five instances of HALion [[:|]]

Also, I cannot find two of the clarinet patches in my Pro Edition KL_oV_fp and KL_oV_wA_3s - what are they if you don't mind me asking.

Many thanks


Tim

KLB_oV_fp
is included in: 06 KLB_DYNAMIC-SPECIAL.gig

KLB_oV_wA_3s
is included in: 02 KLB_LONG-NOTES.gig

best
Herb

Thsnks Herb - great memory you've got [:D]

Tim--

The piece was done on 1 computer (P4 1.4 Ghz) with 768 MB of ram. Because of my ram and cpu limitations I had to record the piece dry in roughly 4 sections (Strings, Woodwinds, Brass and Percussion) using Sonar 3. I then put each of the 4 sections (one section at a time) though a different setting of Gigapulse and recorded the wet versions using Sonar 3. Then I mixed (tweaked) the 4 wet tracks to make the final file.

Life (well, orchestral mockups anyway!) would be much easier with more, bigger and faster computers, but a lot can be done with very little. You just have to be willing to put up with some tedious and time consuming steps.


--Jay

Thanks Jay - a good approach - if you're interested I'll see how much I can get done with HAL on a single PC (at one time at least without the mix down).

What really amazes me is how you manage to construct the four different parts in (almost) isolation. Obviously this work was not an original but still getting a good mix must have been tricky. Would you be able to share your approach in more detail - e.g. how you get an organic rather than quantized sounding end result when working from orchestral scores.

Regards

Tim

@JBacal said:

Hi Mathis,

I used a total of 4 instances of Gigapulse (but my P4 1.4Ghz only runs 1 instance at a time before crashing). I used the Large Hall IR that comes with GS3. I used a different setting for the 4 main sections of the orchestra(Strings, Woodwinds, Brass and Percussion). I used 100%wet/dry mix for all 4 sections, but varied the placement of the sources and the perspective for each. I used close proximity seating for Strings, Woodwinds and far proximity for Brass and Percussion.

As I said before, I'm not certain this is the best way to use Gigapulse. So if any of you can share your own thoughts and techniques, I'd appreciate it.

--Jay

Jay-
How did you did this exactly? Did you first group the mixer inputs according to instrumental section, then assign a different gigapulse occurance for each group? This seems to be the way to do it, but I wanted to check with you first.
thanks,
Mike

Tim--

To over-simplify, getting an organic sound is largely a function of "change."

Change the dynamics and timbre of your phrases with modwheel cross-fading instruments.

Change the expression and volume of individual notes (esp. long notes) with midi CC#11.

Change articulations.

Change tempos. Add subtle ritards and acccerandos.

If you quantize, go back and randomize the start and end times of notes so that instruments do not start and stop at exactly the same time. This will prevent that "organ" sound esp. with woodwinds and brass.

Create “width” by panning and placement of your instruments. Create “depth” with your reverb. (There's a good discussion of this in the mixing forum.)

There’re many other tips, but I either don’t know them yet or am too tired to think of them right now. Maybe we should create a separate thread and everyone can contribute their methods. I think this could be very helpful to many (myself included)!


Mike--

What you describe should work nicely if you have the cpu and hard drive speed.

My computer is too slow, so I had to record premixed dry tracks of each section (4 in total) in Sonar. I created a wav file of each premixed track, loaded the wav file into GS3, and then routed this one wav file through a single instance of Gigapulse. I then recorded the resulting wet version of the premixed track back into Sonar. When I had done this for all 4 premixed tracks (using different settings in Gigapulse for each section), I mixed the 4 tracks together in Sonar. Admittedly, this is not the simplest of methods, but it works.


Best,
Jay

Thanks for sharing your know-how so generously, Jay.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

I agree Jay has been incredibly generous and nice about this. If anyone wants to hear just how expressive sampled music can be they ought to listen to his orchestrations of Mompou as well as this Ravel - brilliant.

Jay,

Congratulations! This is another fine piece of work and it’s awesome to have the MIDI file and instrument names to work with. Is it a direct transcription of Ravel's orchestration or is some of this your own interpretation? I was not familiar with the piece before your shared it.

Your demo mix in the MP3 is very smooth and I like the reverb but the experience doesn’t compare to hearing the full quality direct out of Logic (even though I don’t have all the tracks working yet and I don’t have the French Oboe).

I have 55 of the tracks running under Logic 6.4.2 on a G4 Dual 1G. I’ll probably have to bounce some tracks to hear the full arrangement on my system.

This is a great way to check out Opus 1. The Pavane and the Mompou pieces are excellent as well.

You the man,

Carlos Garza

Carlos--

This piece is 100% Ravel (but it's flattering you would even ask).


Dietz and William--

This VSL forum is chock full of extremely knowledgeable and generous people (yourselves included!). That's one of the main things that makes this site such a unique and inspiring "community."

--Jay

Jay-
Thanks again for the help. I'm curious how you got each section to sound like it was placed in different places on the stage. What did you do in Gigapulse to achieve different placement for each of the sections? I read the manual, but it really doesn't explain how to do that kind of thing.
thanks again,
Mike

Jay,

Many thanks again for your time and patience (and to all other contributors in these forums) it is invaluable to beginners like myself.

Cheers

Tim

Mike--

Here are the important settings for each section that I used in Gigapulse. Please treat them only as a starting point because frankly I was only guessing. In fact, I now think the woodwinds were a bit too wet (so season to taste). Changing the perspective parameter will make the sound drier and wetter.

Strings:
Bank: Large Hall
Perspective: -49
Wet/dry Mix: 100
Placement: L2 R8

Woodwinds:
Bank: Large Hall
Perspective: -1
Wet/dry Mix: 100
Placement: L3 R7

Horns:
Bank: Large Hall
Perspective: -207
Wet/dry Mix: 100
Placement: L12 R15

Percussion:
Bank: Large Hall
Perspective: 102
Wet/dry Mix: 100
Placement: L11 R17

Hope this helps,
Jay

Jay-
Thanks so much! You really are very generous with your time and your knowledge. I will try those settings and thanks again,
Mike