@William said:

You cannot even hear about 3/4 of what John Williams wrote because it is covered up by explosions.

[:D] , sorry, I´m not laughing at you, it´s my recent past. I was a sound editor and sound designer the last five years and thought of course the complete opposite way...

But, I tell you: It´s not the sound effects, nor the music which is the enemy, it´s dialog! [[;)]]

Bests,
- M

I agree with what you're saying Tripit on all of those except maybe John Williams who I do think is tremendously influential and talented.

But I remember reading that magazine article by the obnoxious snob from the Conservatory (we had one of those here on this forum recently - he had to let everyone know immediately that he was from Julliard just so we were all reduced to quiet worshipfulness. It didn't work.) In that magazine, Elfman didn't say anything arrogant - he in fact was saying he regretted not having training at a Conservatory! But this snob just couldn't wait to put him down because he was a film composer. I've experienced that first hand so am just a little irritated (translation: homicidal) whenever I encounter it these days.

Sorry Mathis - I am the mortal enemy of Dolby Digital sound effects. And all the mind-numbing, brain-deadening, ear-splitting cacophony of today's films.

Well, of course I agree with you, there´s a reason why I left this field. However, it´s not the sound designers nor Dolbys fault, it´s the films themselves. All these sound geeks just do their best to fulfill what the picture and its director calls for. Don´t blaim them.
Most sound designers I got to know - among these were very "famous" ones who do lots of these films - are very sick of that demand. It´s just that everybody in the industry thinks that a film cannot be sold without bombastic sound and maybe they´re right, who knows.
Literally *everybody* in the sound department I met is dreaming of a delicate film which calls for subtle narrative use of sound _and_ music because it relies on the filmic language of vision and sound, not on description by dialog.

Most of the time the problem for a sound editor with music is, that directors tend to distrust their own film in the end and ask the composer for nearly 100 percent film length of music which is of course disgusting. And there are also really lots of things sound effects can tell better than music, but directors don´t trust that either.

Bill, the only solution is: let´s keep up our work on our own films!

Mathis, that is a good observation based on your experience and I find it interesting how what you're saying is true in all the fields involved in film - writing, acting, directing, cinematography, music, sound, editing - everyone wants to do something good but is forced to do crap because of one other field: marketing.

BTW I agree with your solution.

@Tripit said:

Ennio, he's freaking briliant. Not so much a all around composer, but very special in the right setting.

I've just finished watching The Untouchables a minute ago. Haven't seen it for a while. Ennio Morricone composed, conducted and orchestrated the score to this brilliant film. I would have to say he is actually an all round composer and remains one of the best in my view. The different styles he pulls out for this score, whilst remaining musically to stay within the context of the film is in another league. Definately a very steep learning curve for any aspiring filmscore writer, and yes, 'freaking' brilliant. That's film making and that's filmscore writing at it's best and nobody said it's supposed to be easy. The combined attention to detail in the film and the score seperates the wheat from the chaff. Why watch drivel? Although professionally, needs must when the Devil drives.

James Horner, for instance, did the score for The Mask of Zorro and changes musical style constantly throughout the film, but unlike Morricone, it's almost as if one is watching (and hearing) different subject matter every fifteen minutes. Although, I liked his scoring to The Name of the Rose, just so as to even it up a little. [[;)]]

How about Philip Glass?

He's not that big but I think he's great.
Do you know his score on "The Hours".

Very taunting and expressive.

Just close your eyes and let the journey begin.

It 's easy but it goes straight to your heart.
At least for me [:)]

Vincent

Vincent,

"The hours" was good lecture to me. Philip Glass´s music I really can´t stand running in a CD-Player or in a concert because of its banal simplicity but I was impressed how well it worked with that picture. That was a good lecture about film scoring.

Bests,
- M

I'm no Phillip Glass fan, either...but I, too, thought his soundtrack for "The Hours" worked well with the movie. (I wasn't surprised at its Oscar nomination.)

In fact, after grudgingly coming to this conclusion, I started paying close attention to see if I could tell why this soundtrack felt so musical when I find most other Glass music almost annoying.

My take was this: Two things made it work. The musicians...and the mix.

One thing I find annoying about some of the Glass I've heard is that the dynamics are almost mechanical. And the recordings tend to sound sterile to me. I thought the pianist and string players brought a great deal of musicality to the score. Also, it was recorded at Abbey Road, and Jonathan Allen's beautiful, lush mix made the music wrap around the story. (I admit a bias, here. I've had the privilege of working with Jonathan once. And I wasn't surprised when I saw his name in the closing credits.)

This score...and 'Kundun'...could almost make me like Phillip Glass.

Almost.

Fred Story

Phillip Glass is responsible for one of the worst film scores in the history of filmmaking: the "New Score" to the Universal "Dracula" which is first of all a film that had no score. So we are dealing with tampering to begin with. But this atrocity has to be heard to be believed. It has absolutely nothing to do with the film at any point, and drones on and on incredibly irritatingly with no reference to what is happening on the screen. It is like music composed by a chimp.

Another example of Glass's prententiousness: putting his grubby mitts all over Jean Cocteau's and George Auric's masterpiece of film and music ""Beauty and the Beast." The arrogant Glass had the gall to erase the beautiful impressionist soundtrack by Auric, and replace it with his own moronic droning which he calls music.

Why this person is so acclaimed is one of the anomalies of modern music.

William,

Now quit holding back and tell us what you really think.

Didn't Phillip Glass score Hamburger Hill? I think he almost pulled it off but I recall the music drawing me away from the film quite a bit.

Paul,

I love Morricone's great the score to The Untouchables. It's so funky (Main Tile) with that oboe ostinato and snare with brushes etc. It really is one of the great modern scores. Highly appropriate, evocative of the time, and highly original. Few film composers can make such a personal statement with no musical compromise and satisfy the requirements of a film so perfectly. Very very few. The guy's a giant.

Dave Connor

I'm not sure if it really was Glass for "Hamburger Hill", but I do distinctly remember some awful hard rock music right at the end, when they finally take the hill. Totally drew the attention away from what should have been a climactic point in the film. The sadness, loss and pain of an after battle scene is in complete oposition with the music that was applied. Bizzare, innapropriate, and definitely a bad decision.

Hmm, it's pretty easy to criticise when you are a young composer like me [:)] I'd better shut up and try and avoid making terrible music myself!

Did anybody see Inarritus "21 grams". Saw it yesterday. Probably not one the finest film scores out there but I was just melting away because of the nice use of the bandoneon. It´s just such a beautiful instrument...... sigh...
(Composer is Argentinian Gustavo Santaolalla.)
I saw Inarritus first film "Amores perros" in Istanbul, very strange experience.... a mexican-spanish movie with english subtitles surrounded by a turkish audience ... and I loved it! I´m very happy that we have a director like him.
He actually was a famous DJ before he made films. He earned so much money with DJ´ing that he once decided to spend the money on a film....

"I'd better shut up and try and avoid making terrible music myself!"

Leon, that's a good attitude - I should should probably try to do the same. When I see these composers though, that are laughing all the way to the bank, it is difficult. Especially when I'm crying all the way to the bank.

William,

At least you're going to the bank: I cry at home.

Dave

@Leon Willett said:

Hmm, it's pretty easy to criticise when you are a young composer like me [[:)]] I'd better shut up and try and avoid making terrible music myself!

Leon,

Don't worry about any of that! These people aren't bloody Gods and their music is not written in tablets of stone. Young composer aye? Write some terrible music; I do all the time. Does you the power of good. Now and again, you get lucky and write something half decent, just like most of the named filmscore writers.

Dave,

Yes. The beginning music to The Untouchables is definately 'funky' with those those oboes playing chords in an ostinato fashion. Very original. The music that comes in the first time we meet Al Capone is so unexpected and dead right. Very clever. Youv'e got to be top of the tree to write that stuff.

Bill

Do you know, I know absolutely nothing about Phillip Glass. Is he a minimalist type of writer? Where does he come from and is he still alive?

Mathis

I like the sound of the Bandeon. I think it was used years ago for the theme to Captain Pugwash. I can hear laughter, but actually that was a really good piece of music. If it wasn't a Bandeon, then it sounded a lot like one. Only I can talk about Capatain Pugwash on this forum and get away with it. [[:)]]

Which seamlessly [8-)] brings me onto........

Anyone heard the score to Master and Commander yet? The so called 'incidental' music, not Bach and Vaughn Williams etc. I think it's very effective in the context of the storyline

Later (and Bests)

Paul

@vinco said:

Philip Glass?Vincent

Hi Vincent

If you like this music, well thats the main thing. If it gives you inspiration, then thats got to be positive. Unfortunately, I haven't seen The Hours and am not familiar with this composers work. I will look out for it and come back to it another time. Is that the film about the Bloomsbury Set?

PaulR

The Hours was great. And I love Philip Glass. Although if the director lets him have free reign he can destroy a film. The best is when the director is highly in control of him. Like Hamburger Hill, or The Truman Show. But NOT Kundun.

Evan Evans

Paul is right - if you write something lousy, that's great. Because the next thing can be better. If you write nothing because it's not good enough - there is no next thing. You're still getting to the first thing.

Any serious artist should never worry about quality. He should just create - the hell with quality. You'll deal with it when you can - when you have that luxury.

It really bugged me when somebody was ragging on Evan for the quality of the films he scores. Jeez! No composer can control that. He can only fulfill his end of the bargain. And continue working - that's the important thing. Keep writing! Or creating - however you do it.

@William said:

It really bugged me when somebody was ragging on Evan for the quality of the films he scores. Jeez! No composer can control that. He can only fulfill his end of the bargain.

I agree. I remember that and thought it was piss poor.