Christian[/quote]Well Christian, thank you for putting it that way, because I feel that I'd like to enlighten you. Apparently I am not doing it very well, but, actually there is MUCH art in writing the octave gliss, especially when it's different everytime. There is the timeless issue of being able to communicate later the entire compostion down to it's purest technical qualities should it need to be translated or re-performed.

If you are writing for just the one momentary project than you are trapping your art to it.

There is no future for concert work without the composer's help. My sequences are such that I could throw them into Sibelius and every nuance of the musical compositon will be there.

Evan Evans[/quote]

Wow - there is so much to comment on here... I don't think anyone is removing value from being able to notate and orchestrate ones own work. They are, to be sure, prized skills to possess. I do not think that was the original point. The point was the use of a portamento/glissando sample to give some realism (quickly and sounding great) to an original compostion - and not merely a composition constructed by linking up sample loops.

"Trapping your art to it"? If you get hired to do a professional job (especially television) you do the best you can with the budget provided. Some Composers cut corners constantly because thats all they can do. Many do not. As I said previously, talent will emerge and less talented will too. Every composer who works professionally must make constant choices that they must live with.

>>My sequences are such that I could throw them into Sibelius and every nuance of the musical compositon will be there.>>

Thats terrific. You produce everything you do in this manner? Always? Regardless of the schedule? (feel free to insert here your own self righteous remarks of your renowned speed/agility in orchestrating... again....)

You do not believe John Williams to be a strong composer? I am not quoting you, dear sir, so, please go easy on me......

Evan, while I do admire your enthusiam for this medium, you continue to come across as angry. Bernie was an angry composer but you know... he WAS Bernard Herrmann and directors lined up to put up with him because of his legend. I hope you have the same "chutzpah" to go with that soapbox.

S

I think anyone who argues with Evan ought to take a listen to some of his music. It is fantastic, and I believe he is a master in the use of sampling. I agree with his purist approach, and have to admit I have never once been able to use or stand to use a pre-recorded run or "lick" in anything I've yet done. Though I am not looking down on anyone who does it. I'm sure it works in some situations but I have also (besides Evan) never encountered them.

WARNING: Long post. Apologies in advance.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that every member of this forum is someone who is serious about their craft, who works hard, and is committed to creating music of lasting value. Naturally, depending on how far down the path we've come, we all bring different levels of skill and experience to our efforts. But given what I read here, it's pretty clear that everyone CARES about the work.

So for someone like Evan to bombard us with drivel like "Sometimes it can become an argument about YOUR ethics and morals against MY ethics and morals." Ethics and morals when we're talking about sampled licks and runs? Give me a break. Or the capper, "maybe some of you are JUST in it for the money. Fine. I hope nice guys don't finish last though, because we are doing more respectable work!"

Okay, let me recap: I have no ethics or morals, I'm just in it for the money, I don't do respectable work, and I'm not even a nice guy. Guess I'd better tell my wife, my employees, and my clients...many of whom have been loyal to me for almost twenty years. Boy, will they be shocked.

I remember when I was 4 or 5 years into what became 7 years of private composition study with Ziggy Hurwitz, I looked at him one day and said, "You know, every week I feel more stupid." He asked me to explain. "Well, the more I learn - the more I realize how much I DON'T know, and the stupider I feel." Ziggy just smiled and said, "Well, Bubby...NOW you're getting it!" (I still don't know why he called me 'Bubby'.)

Also, on a few occasions, I feel lucky to have spent some time with those whom I would consider great artists. Funny thing...not ONE of them felt the need to regale me with reminders about what great artists they are. In fact, if anything they were self-deprecating...focused on what they'd yet to accomplish...focused on the work...and focused on giving back to the musical community in any way they could. Not critical, judgemental or disrespectful of those trying to navigate their own musical path. And they all seemed to express a genuine interest in what I was doing musically. These are the qualities I most admired in them, and try the hardest to emulate - though I know I come up short.

I don't post here often, but I read as often as I can with a busy workload. I appreciate the generosity and knowledge I get here...even from the ubiquitous Mr. Evans. But I sure hope he comes to realize someday that the solar system doesn't spin around his "artistry". His disdain and lack of respect - not to mention complete conviction that at any given moment he's right and everyone else is wrong - just make me shake my head and say, "Evan, Evan, Evan."

Sorry, still can't be mad at him when he's so clueless.

Okay now. Quick. Someone fire off a little levity, would ya'?

Fred Story

Fred -

We should get together for a beer after "WORK"....you summed it all up.

Your "sell out, whore" of a pal,

Shawn

@Nick Batzdorf said:

All right Evan...
You say you'd make picc runs out of grace notes, eh?
CHEATER!
Where's your integrity? Any composer worth his salt *writes* the grace note!
[6]

Now we're talking. Although you seem to have "graced" over the fact that the grace note legato instruments work fine as an alternate legato instrument, and work especially well for fast runs. it's basically a FAST legato. Almost emphasized.

But thanks for backing me up, that picc runs could be done with grace legato.

Evan Evans

@Another User said:

Evan, while I do admire your enthusiam for this medium, you continue to come across as angry. Bernie was an angry composer but you know... he WAS Bernard Herrmann and directors lined up to put up with him because of his legend. I hope you have the same "chutzpah" to go with that soapbox.

I'm not worried. And I'm not continually angry. I have other feelings too! [:)] In fact, I am continually happy!

Evan Evans

@William said:

...fantastic...

Uh, thanks. Wow. Anyhoo, I likely cannot explain myself very well. But I do believe in this core thing that at least I think William "gets". Perhaps others can tell me what is confusing them about the notion. Because it is so clear to me, I am just not explaining it correctly.

Evan Evans

Well thanks Fred. I am just too busy being me to be any different. Ziggy was Ziggy ... and Bubby was Bubby. You be you. Do you like your music. Do you like to keep it to yourself? When you are dead will anyone know you liked your music?

Evan Evans

William wrote earlier:
I think anyone who argues with Evan ought to take a listen to some of his music. It is fantastic....

I strongly disagree here. The few selections I have found are, like Mr Evans' posts, rather egotistical and pompous, but lacking in substance. He is certainly adept in creating a big sound, but that would be in line with his general character. (May I pat your head from here Evan....?)

I find his main value currently to be one of light relief on this forum and provoking discussion and other peoples' humour.

Regards - Colin

[[:|]]

it seems this place is starting to get like the cubase forums.
if you dont like runs etc don't use them. who really cares what your likes are. YOUR NOT THAT IMPORTANT!
personally i find the performance reps and runs useful if needed. they sound much better then trying to sequence them

@mike harper said:

[[:|]] if you dont like runs etc don't use them

Someone with some sense. Simple and correct. What is this? An artistic thing? Mozart? Bach? Heeellloooo!

If you do this for a hobby, you're not going to care. If you do it for money, you're not going to care. If you were the reincarnation of either of the above, you'd do it in your head anyway. Better computer than any PC/Mac.

End result is what counts. Imagination is what counts. Orchestration is what counts. Rub your thumb down the side of a lampshade to get the right result, if it works. Record yourself on the crapper and play it backwards, for all I care.

And Evan. If Fred wants to talk about Ziggy and Bubby, thats great by me. Like you never mentioned your tutor/pupil relationship once, right? You want me to tell you about mine some time? And, if you're continually happy, you need to get that looked at.

Valium

Interesting discussion.

Just want to add, that I'm mapping the piccolo runs at the moment.
We'll include them as a bonus file on our upcoming "French Oboe" Horizon release. And later I plan to enable a free download for our Pro Performance set users.

best
Herb

@mike harper said:

[[:|]] if you dont like runs etc don't use them

Rub your thumb down the side of a lampshade to get the right result, if it works. Record yourself on the crapper and play it backwards, for all I care.




Ahhh...the levity, at last.

@Fred Story said:

Rub your thumb down the side of a lampshade to get the right result, if it works. Record yourself on the crapper and play it backwards, for all I care.

Ahhh...the levity, at last.[/quote]

Yeah! And then shove it through a Ring Modulator (no pun intended). Then you get The Tardis from Dr Who taking off and landing. Think about that for a second! EEEEEURRR EEEEEURRR EEEEURRRR...

If it works, use it!

Actually Fred, I was being serious. First time I lost my temper on this Forum. Net result. Lunacy.

I enjoy your posts. Keep them coming.

I'm feeling very much relieved now [:)]
(no pun intended)

PaulR

Herb...

Simply awesome...

Can you lift the veil on other upcoming Horizon products? Or at what time I can get my filthy hands on them? [:D]

@herb said:

Interesting discussion.

Just want to add, that I'm mapping the piccolo runs at the moment.
We'll include them as a bonus file on our upcoming "French Oboe" Horizon release. And later I plan to enable a free download for our Pro Performance set users.

best
Herb

Thats great Herb. Although Mozart, Beethoven, Mussorgsky and Evan Evans won't be using them .... thousands of us will. It will be an incredible addition to an incredible product.

Thank you,

Shawn Patterson

The official announcement of the upcoming Horizons will happen in a few weeks.
But this time we don't make a big "suspense story" about the upcoming releases, therefore I can share some infos.

1. The "French oboe"
Extensive like our Vienna Oboe of the Pro Edition, but of course with a major focus on vibrato performances.
There will be included two smaller bonus instruments:
an english horn with vibrato performance legati,
and an Eb clarinett.

2. Chamber Strings
Also a very voluminous release.
6 Violins, 4 viola, 3 celli, 2 bassi.
The major extensions here are "performance detaches" and "spicatti", (like our solo violin)

3. 8 Horn section
The performance legato costed a fortune. [[:|]] I don't like to count the recording sessions we've needed. This time the legatos are performed starting with B1!

4. Woodwind ensembles
3 flute, 3 oboes, 3 clarinettes, 3 bassoons

5. Harps
A dedicated harp release, including our Harp of the First/Pro Edition plus a new second harp.
The 2nd harp does not have any glissandis, here we focused a little more on special playing techniques.
Also the normal plugs do have 2 variations of each note (1+2).
This release is dedicated to all scores, which need 2 harps performing.

best
Herb

Oh my. [[:|]] [:D]

When will there be demos, Herb? [:)]

Herb -

That's fantastic news. Now I can finally use the oboe instead of having to load up Miroslav's.

However, you mention this will be a Horizon release. This seems to indicate that we'll have to purchase the oboe separately. I thought sometime back you had mentioned making the French oboe free? (Or am I just a little bit too absentminded/hopeful?)

Oh, and as a final note: PLEASE let the next horizon recording be a choir!

Damn!

I just realized that Herb is the single most upsetting person on this forum.
And he is completely pleasant, calm and respectful. He really knows how to do it.