Herb you've already surprised us with THAT list!!

Great to hear about the huge horns, and the saxaphones!!! (with performance tool legati it should be awesome).

Actually, its opened a floodgate in my tinking about the library in future.

Any chance way down the track or sooner, of ethnic instruments? The reason I ask is because the legato tool works so well, on legati and portamenti (eg the solo violin and ensemble violin port/legato are amazing).

This tool would be fantastic on whistle (think of fluid, haunting Irish melodies etc. Its used a lot in films). Yeah, thats what I'd like: whistle for legato performance, including portamento like you've done with the strings!

And, I can't wait for those horns!!!

Symphonic Cube "I"

the number at the end is vitally important.

The whole concept is based on three big cubes and there are the following emphases:

1) The traditionell symphony orchestra,
the bigger part will be covered with Symphonic Cube I.

2) Choir

3) Modern and avantgarde playing techniques of orchestra instruments,
also the contemporary playing styles Matthias asked for.

4) Ethnic instruments

5) Historical instruments


The question is, what's is the main focus of "Symphonic" Cube II.
Will it be the "Choir & Ethnic Cube",
or the Historical & Modern Cube"
(also possible "choir & modern" or "historical & ethnic" etc.)?

best wishes
Herb

Herb, marry me.......... please? [:D]

Woooooooooooooowwwwwwwwww [:D]

Very pleased to "see" that - awsome!

Give me more of that! Very exciting indeed!!!!!

MADMAN ON THE LOOSE!!!

One Library to rule them all, One Library to find them, One Library to bring
them all and in the Darkness bind them. [H]

Wow, Herb. Looks like I made the correct choice in purchasing your library (Peter Alexander is building me another computer with First Edition as we speak). I cannot wait to receive it!

Rob

Wow, that answered my question...! Herb, you guys are truly insane!! [:D]

/Mattias

[:D] I'm certainly looking forward to all the future libraries...

but for now.. I'd just like to get my hands on the EXS performance tools that i paid for [:D]

@herb said:

The question is, what's is the main focus of "Symphonic" Cube II.
Will it be the "Choir & Ethnic Cube",
or the Historical & Modern Cube"
(also possible "choir & modern" or "historical & ethnic" etc.)?

Herb,

The "Choir & Ethnic Cube" will be of great usefulness to those of us who make our livings in film and television. The addition of choir and ethnic instruments will be an excellent and much used addition to the Symphonic Cube.

This is truly an exciting new set of tools! Thanks again to the great VSL team for creating and continuing to create them.

Jason

I am looking forward to the Historical instruments.

What a good new !!! I won't be able to sleep for a couple of days [:D]

Herb, will you have an utility like VOTA to translate words in "VSL Choir langage" ?

Thank you,

Mathieu Laprise
Sonomax inc.

While I am still learning to use just the first edition which is huge in its possibility all these additions are exciting, especially saxophones, which have absolutely no representation in classical sampling, historical instruments like Krummhorns, Schawms, etc., which are currently only very limited non-chromatic samples (like "Early Patches" which is good but too small) and especially choir.

I really like the VOTA, but it is lacking the same thing all other smple libraries prior to VSL have lacked: legato. This is absolutely crucial to choir and voice, even more than with strings, and if the Vienna guys do it they should go ape with the legato performances - multiple dynamics and variations between clean slurs and radical portamento, because as everyone knows that is what a live choir does every time - it's never the same exact tone and especially never reached in exactly the same way.

By the way I'm also looking forward to a fully chromatic, six-dynamic-level Bass Ophicleide with at least five different performance legati. If this happens, I will finally be able to get my 13 movement atonal Concerto for Ophicleide and Piccolo Ensemble performed.

William

For Symphonic Cube 2 here are some early thoughts.

For vocals, we have VOTA, SOV, the new Miroslav (which I haven't heard) and the older Peter Seidlaczek material. As one user wrote, all of these (miroslav too?) lack the legato. However, one other critical feature is missing: independent sections for SATB.

Oddly enough, for the all the money invested in recording choirs, it appears that no one (as in not one) benchmarked the end results with performances of the Bach chorales as a standard. I'd even like to suggest testing the final material with pieces from Palestrina, Dufay and more modern pieces like Carmina Burana. If you can get choral samples to execute Bach chorales, THAT would be a major breakthrough.

I guess what I'm saying is that the voice hasn't been approached the same way instruments have.

I'm a little bit shocked reading about historical und ethnic instruments - I'm absloutely not interested in such samples. I'd rather prefer what VSL stands for: the first and only COMPLETE orchestral library. And in case of strings (identical and complete palette of playing styles for all different section-sizes) this is still a long way to go. Think of the "sul ponticello flageolett tremolos" (for example in Stravinskys "Petrouchka"), or all the different con sordino, sul tasto, flautando timbres (for exmaple in the starting section of Woflgang Rihms "Gesungene Zeit"). Please design the historical and ethnic libraries as separate products - I'd be dissapointed if I had to pay for such "updates", in order to get some new string playing techniques.
Thank you for your great work,

Lorenz

P.S.: Choir would be excellent, but here too: please as a separate product.

@Peter Alexander said:

However, one other critical feature is missing: independent sections for SATB.

THANK YOU. I have been saying this for at least a year, as everyone has Women and Men choral patches, which makes as much sense as High and Low strings. Even if herb and co. only go SATB instead of soprano, mezzo-soprano, alto, etc. they'll push themselves ahead of everyone else IMO.

I don't have VotA, but I've heard the word utility is not user friendly at all. I'm sure Herb wouldhave someone build a program a little easier to use and different. If he/they do decide to do (Someone help, what's the word I'm looking for?) "broken speech" then I can assume he'll more than likely sample almost every vowel, consonant, and dipthong(sp?).

I would also imagine he'll make it a separate purchase (i.e. Strings, Winds, Brass, Percussion, Exotic Instruments, Choir), but include it in a bundled package in a future Cube.

...thats' what's innovative about VSL, that somebody has actually developed a practical way of using these samples to play real lines and dynamics....

There is an abundance of material available these days, and I personally probably have more sounds than I really need, if I'm honest.....but I tend to stick with those that are easiest to use , most "playable".

Rather than bringing out more and more libraries which we have to get to know/ learn to use, I would like to see expansion and further integration of the dynamic and timbral capabilities of the instruments we have. A properly conceived library with a consistent sound, like VSL, is capable of this.

I have yet to try out the EXS24 Performance tool, but an interface like that has enormous possbilities for sound manipulation and management which could be taken further than what we,ve seen so far.I'm sure Herb and his team will continue to amaze and delight us!

Nigel

VSL sure does offer unique composing/orchestration capabilities. But here are a few ideas that I reckong the VSL guys (& girls) are probably thinking hard about.

As VSL's samples are so many, I think it would be a relatively straightfoward excercise for VSL to be able to provide/print off a full and accurate written score for each instrument.

This would sure help us in including the occasional "real" musician in our creations (how many of us know how to score properly - or at least without a serious risk of embarrasement!)

Also, I think VSL would be very capable of producing choral samples -and by using the same "performance" concept, be able to have a large selection of vowels etc, so real words lyrics can be sung.

Now here is an interesting example of what can be done - Yamaha are working on such an idea but for single voices - http://www.global.yamaha.com/ or http://www.global.yamaha.com/news/20030304b.html


look out for news of their Vocaloid product - the demos on their website are pretty impressive. You type in the words the sampled singer is to sing, and the words and artilculations are produced - sung!

But I believe VSL's abilities in the vocal arena would be more impressive as they are way ahead in many areas.

This is surely the age of the composer (who will be able to realise the "complete"performance! The future looks great, yet we must always recognise that the interaction/colaboration with other musicians is an essential component of our creative talents.

Now, if only VSL could make a perfect guitar to midi tool, that had perfect response!

Hmmm

As you would have read above I requested Ethnic instruments and waddya know its already on the drawing board or in the works!! Well done Herb!!

However I was thinking of it as a seperate product, not mixed with the symphonic product.

(Unless its a free update then, hey yeah I'll take it!). I think the Lorenz's concern is a one to take notice of.

Anyway, as to Herb's question about the next part of SYMPHONIC CUBE, I think the next essential thing (besides articulations etc that may not have already been covered with the orchestra so far), is the modern techniques / Avante Guarde / 20th century type stuff that might be awesome for atonal writing, textural writing etc.

Take Ligetti for example...Atmospheres: a composition of a series of incredble orchestral textures. Lots of these (most, if not all of them) however might be quite impossible without recording the actual texture of the group. You simply cannot get these orchestral "atmospheres" and textures and sounds by performing midi layers one at a time. You'd really need a sample of the actual texture or gesture of the orchestra as a group, section or tutti.

HERB: THIS IS A HUGE HOLE IN THE MARKET / SAMPLE INDUSTRY.

Hollywood big wigs record their own sampling sessions for this, and of course those samples are exclusive to that composer. Other composers would pay big time to be able to use such stuff.

Orchestral gestures, runs, glisses, tutti rips and stabs, sections of clusters and textures (all the stuf in "Atmospheres": THAT would be my next DREAM CUBE and I know tons of folks in LA would agree.

For those of you who don't know what I am talking about and don't have access to recordings, rent the movie "The Shining" with Jack Nickolson. Listen to the score and you'll know its impossible with samples....

....At the moment. (HINT).

[G. Ligeti owns a nice little mansion six or seven houses down the road I live in ... maybe I should ask him if he would supervise a special edition ... [;)] ...]


But seriously - the concept of sampling a whole orchestra sounds quite convincing at the first glance, but actually, it's a far shot from the basic ideas of our library. I'm sure that Herb thought about his options a long time ago already, and as far as we all know him, he will come up with another, more convincing solution.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library